Thoughts on this tweet?

You'd have to eat the tunnocks first , appetite suppressants being what they ate.

Kiwi farms is interesting on the subject of Briana Wu. He looks like nearly as hard work as developing a later life hard drug habit

Yes I agree with the statements. Apart from it would be hateful to call a trans woman a man. Wrong, inaccurate etc, but no hate involved?

Happy to trade my cocaine for someone else's Tunnocks (Caramel bars, not the teacakes).

It's coconut that they put on Tunnocks Snowballs, not cocaine.

It wouldn't be wrong or inaccurate.

He is a man! I’m not going to lie about what he is.

Agreed and thank you OP. If we can all argue our cases in this area without getting shouty or rude then this is a very helpful sharing of views and positions.

Agreed and thank you OP. If we can all argue our cases in this area without getting shouty or rude then this is a very helpful sharing of views and positions.

Edited to say that I didn't actually post twice.

Agree with this 100% 🙌 this is how I feel

brianna has been saying this stuff for a while though

he adds in more stuff each time so that in the end the only TW allowed in women's spaces would be him

Yes, he's a total Trojan Horse.

@walkthedino

Great talking points!

Can you explain why you agree with them?

Have you thought about it properly, or is this more a vibe thing that they feel good and fair to you, and you have not yet thought about what they actually mean in the real world?

Either way, here's a few questions I'd like to get your thoughts on that are very relevant to your post. These to me are such fundamental questions and the answers can change so much that I do really need to understand where you are coming from before I reply more.

What do you think the differences are between men and women, and how do these differences relate (or not!) to the reasons we have separate sports, prisons, toilets and so on?

Do you think the legal limitations placed on women before the mid twnetieth century in the West, and in countreis like Afghanistan today, stopped trans women coming out as women because they would have lost male privileges?

Do you think "true" trans people are people who are 100% their actual biological sex same as everyone else but have a genuine belief they are mentally tho other sex, or do you believe they actually are in some real way mentally more like the opposite sex than others of their biological sex? If so, what so you think this means for other people of that sex (the ones you might call "cis") to be told trans people are proof that their mental identities are limited by their sex?

Even if sex is mental rather than physical and we have somehow missed this for all of human hitsory, does that not just mean that we need to recognose a new facet of being human alongside the fact of biological sex rather than reptend biological sex doesn't exist (or exists but has fewer consequences than this mental gender thing)?

I'd love to discuss your points but these to me are such fundamental questions and the answers can really change how I interpret your post, so I really need to understand where you are coming from before I reply more.

Thanks!

So is this the back tracking going on, then?

All that ridiculous shark jumping, and now, as long as they're not 'disruptive', they can still do what they like.

And don't call them men because it upsets them and they want to be perceived as women? (which is a massively contradictory concept, if ever there was one).

And then you have the filter issue. A man saying please don't call us men, we would like to be perceived as women, and if we're doing enough work, we should be, - pretending he looks like a 15-year-old girl??

I don't know who this person is, but really.

It doesn't matter how much regret the erstwhile shark jumping generates. The answer is no. See the Supreme Court for reference.

OP isn't arguing their points though. They are just asserting them.

Half way between two extremes is often a good place to compromise. But halfway between the truth and a lie, or between a theft and the original owner, are not compromises, they are injustices. And manipulatative people and movements are very good at exploting that.

OK I'll play.

✅ Yes, most children are being overmedicalized. But rare true trans children deserve help or they psychologically shatter

What's the test to identify the true trans?

✅ No, trans women do not belong in professional sports. But it’s hateful to call them men.

Transwomen dont belong in any female-only sports, but it's off point to focus on their sex. Female-only sports must, to be safe and fair, exclude both males (ie transwomen) and also females with DSDs that cause them to have developed under the influence of testosterone.

✅ Trans women are not automatically women. But with hard work and medical intervention, most of us can have fulfilling lives where people perceive us as women.

Many transwomen dont pass, yet they're deserving of dignity even so. Its unkind of you to imply they're not working hard enough.

✅ Self-ID must end. Women’s feelings and safety matter, so if you cannot use the ladies non-disruptively - don’t.

If female service users know that a female-only service is open to 'non-disruptive' males, some of them will be forced to self-exclude. Plus, it's not female-only any more, is it?

✅ If you can’t understand why women should never see a penis in a locker room, you’re mentally still a man.

We don't need to see a penis to recognise a man. And men without penises are still bigger, stronger, faster, and, at population level, more aggressive and more likely to commit violence, particularly sexual violence, than a woman.

✅ We need research to figure out what is happening with this explosion of non-binary identities. They are not trans, and it’s medical malpractice to give them transsexual healthcare.

Non-binary identities are just as valid as the female gender identity of any transwoman.

✅ You have to do the work to be perceived as a woman. Far left politics cannot do this work for you.

This person overestimates throughout the extent to which transwomen are perceived by others as women. Even leaving 'passing' out of it, surveys indicate that no more than about 20% of British people think TWAW.

Yeah, this is very much the ‘no-one but me’ wedge

not even you Briana, not even you

men who enjoy role playing as women are not our friends. I don’t wish them harm, but it’s important to be clear that they demonstrate their disordered thinking about women in the way they choose to live their lives

Self-ID must end. Women’s feelings and safety matter, so if you cannot use the ladies non-disruptively - don’t.

I just can't get over this. You're fine, as long as you don't get your cock out?? Call women names? Leer? Wank?

Ahrgh yes I didn’t read it properly. Accurate but maybe kinder to just say trans women? I guess I don’t wholly disagree with the statement.

Yes sorry I didn’t read it properly

Brianna Wu is a US transmedicalist. He believes that there is a group of men who have put in sufficient work getting diagnosed, medicalised and surgically altered to deserve the status of 'woman' as a reward. Obviously he and his fellow-travellers are reviled by many under the rest of the 'trans umbrella'.

Those of you that find his arguments compelling are obviously completely at liberty to do so, but just be very, very aware that he believes that he should be allowed in our toilets and changing rooms. He still wants women to give way to men, only it's just 'special' men like him.

*I promise you. The overwhelming majority of the public agrees with all of this.

it's rather insulting to the general public, really.

Who's going to decide what disruptive means? Who's going judge who passes? Who has done sufficient 'work'?? how would I know?

The egocentricity of this is difficult to believe 😁

Sadly it is very easy to believe!

But he's positing a pass re non pass divide which reddit doesn't buy due to feelz. And he's a man whichever way you cut it or whatever you cut.

So what is your view?