Full Council Chaos. Bristol City Council refusing to implement single sex services

Does it? Quiet time you go off to an unstaffed changing room, back them the cubicles in view and hearing of lifeguard. I know where I felt safer at a quiet time.

You referred to a large open-plan changing room. No thanks.

Try reading my post again. You might not have seen the ‘show quote history’ link on quoted posts. It’s really helpful as it lets you check back on what people have actually said if you are not sure. You don’t even have to scroll back pages.

Here you go:

In fact you might find that a large open plan single sex space with a handful of cubicles is quicker to clean than 30 individual unisex cubicles

Sorry I don't want that. I've been to pools like that, always queues waiting for cubicles and to be honest I don't want to see naked bodies while I'm waiting. Enough cubicles for everyone.

I think there are pros and cons to both options, but a lot of the time it just comes down to cubicles taking up more space.

As a teenager I was sexually harassed by a naked woman in a changing room. Not an experience I want to repeat.

Waltham Forrest council saying similar ish things https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5555646-anyone-live-in-waltham-forest-your-council-very-much-needs-some-women-to-write-to-them-and-say-that-actually-yes-the-ehrc-code-is-just-what-we-want-dont-exclude-women

I just had a trans identified male show up on my social media feed doing a piece to camera.

He claimed to be from Trans Pride and pronounced he was attending the Bristol City meeting but ‘was not interested in a county council’s interpretation of the guidance, I’m interested in a legal interpretation of the guidance’.

So he’s interested in a legal interpretation on the guidance produced as an explanation of the law. I’m struggling to get my head around that!

I think most of the traction is around claims that the guidance is based on the EA2010 only and is in direct conflict with other laws.

Your unacceptable experience is very unusual. The majority of sex offending, around 98%, is perpetrated by men. The Sunday Times did a load of FOIs and proved that mixed-sex changing rooms are more dangerous for women, and it was sufficiently credible a study that the bastion of reaction right-wing thinking that is the... [rereads notes and looks puzzled]... Independent reported on it.

"A bad thing happened to me once" isn't data.

Do Bristol Council want to use their budget to take that argument to court?

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I coached at a swimming club and there wasn’t a week went by without men(young & old) trying to film the girls.

Well it happened once with a man so fairly balanced for me. The difference is no one is expecting me to strip off in an open changing room with men or just to walk through to find a cubicle and have to witness naked men but it seems like it's fine to expect me to do that with women.

That study was presumably talking about changing rooms where people use cubicles so not what I was talking about.

I don't actually care if it's data I care that I can change in a cubicle and the other people using the changing room also use cubicles.

I wonder what the stats are for the sort of changing facilities I detailed in a Victorian swimming pool? I bet the are so low as to not register.

What percentage of sexual assaults are ok in your book? I was actually more traumatised by the woman than the man so I think dismissing it is very unfair.

Has Bristol Council said it will install cubicles in all facilities?

Why ask me, I'm not in Bristol.

Because unless you are suggesting that Bristol Council should do this, it's not clear what you are suggesting.

I never suggested Bristol should do anything. When open changing rooms were brought up I said I wouldn't want that. Fortunately at my two local pools they have plenty of cubicles and no one gets undressed in public but I hope no one suggests that cleaning costs would reduce if they got rid of the cubicles.

How odd. Most people just get on with changing, often with their back to the room, they don’t stand around looking at other people.

Surely a single sex communal changing room with cubicles suits the most amount of people and is most space efficient? In my experience in a single sex space the majority of women are happy to change quickly and I’ve never seen a queue in the places I use.

You appear to be the exception but I think most would prefer to minimise their risk of being filmed or spied on by predatory men. Sad that you would like to deny women and girls that protection.

This is a thread about changing facilities in Bristol. Afaik the last Victorian style swimming baths closed some years ago so you’ll have to go elsewhere for that.

This thread is discussing single sex services in Bristol, not you asserting your needs and wishing to deny others the choice.

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Surely we’re at the point now where the law is so clear that just a letter before action should have the lawyers having a quick think and deciding their clients need to comply pronto?

How did the Victorian baths cubicles work then? Surely the bottom of the doors and partitions rotted from the chlorine and water?

I experienced these cubicles round the side of the pool. Boys changed on one side of the pool and girls on the other side. So the there was single sex sides of the pool with teachers monitoring it. As it was swimming lessons everyone was changing at the same time. It was effectively single sex changing areas

How?

The economic reality is that unisex toilets cost a lot more - they cost a lot more to create and run. They are less safe and less hygienic. They are scientifically proven to contain more pathogens. Women particularly avoid them. You have to create 25% extra unisex units than single sex units due to the extra time spent in each compartment. Misuse (sex and drugs) is a problem due to the private design. Hidden cameras are a problem due to the privacy and the excess equipment you have to have in a unisex toilet. If you have any kind of emergency, medical etc including being trapped, they are worse.

How do you manage health and safety, if it’s overriden by the absolute privacy?

Yet that is the cheapest option and the safest because everyone of the same sex is together. It will be very easy to ventilate and clean. It isn’t great for those who want a bit more privacy.

My last post missed off a couple of lines. The compromise, which many people have said, in a communal single sex changing room with a few cubicles (with door and partition gaps below and above) for those who want more privacy eg. Have a young child of the opposite sex with them.