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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #36

1000 replies

nauticant · 22/07/2025 10:21

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35

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17
Lolapusht · 22/07/2025 15:47

OMG. Did she just basically say “Educate yourself” to NC? 😂

Shortshriftandlethal · 22/07/2025 15:47

Your sex is a decision made by people delivering the baby.....but she doesn't understand herself as she's not an expert.

Lunde · 22/07/2025 15:47

InvisibleDragon · 22/07/2025 15:41

"There are 6 of you in the thread" has echoes of Tinker, Taylor - four of them and Alkaline.

Bets on who the 6 are? I'm going for:
KS, Ed, LC, GM, someone unnamed from HR and (wildcard) JD.

KS copied in DU - who forwarded it to the BMA

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 22/07/2025 15:46

GreenFriedTomato · 22/07/2025 15:43

And here is the sex question ..and the answer is hilarious. OMG... She was assigned a gender at birth ..

She can't even answer how sex is assigned at birth without pausing..and saying she's not an expert!!! She's a consultant oh my giddy aunt

I'm actually howling now, I can't believe what I am hearing from the chief handmaiden, I thought this would be good, but not this good.

rebmacesrevda · 22/07/2025 15:46

NebulousSupportPostcard · 22/07/2025 15:42

oh god

Kate is AFAB

Assigned Fuckwit at Birth?

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 22/07/2025 15:45

"Nebulous dog whistle"!!!!!!!

Jitrenka · 22/07/2025 15:45

These people are running our hospitals and dont know how sex works its terrifying!!

Pluvia · 22/07/2025 15:45

ickky · 22/07/2025 15:41

KS I emailed IB as she is much MORE expert than me.

So KS thinks she is an expert!

Boom: the sound of Isla Bumba exploding in the distance.

snickersbarchild · 22/07/2025 15:45

NC has snookered the witness

GreenFriedTomato · 22/07/2025 15:45

It says female on my birth certificate

Naomi. Ok but if you didn't have a birth certificate .

This is just excruciating .

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/07/2025 15:44

NecessaryScene · 22/07/2025 15:43

So I edit the subject before replying

Fine, but be aware, in case of tribunal situations, that the metadata will still indicate what you replied to with a unique ID. Even if you deleted everything in the subject and body of the original message.

I can see why you think the IT guy might be giving testimony on this issue, Necessary.

ThatCyanCat · 22/07/2025 15:44

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 22/07/2025 15:42

How long will it take her to realise that he doesn't 'have her back'?

"I never thought the leopards would eat MY face!"

CriticalCondition · 22/07/2025 15:44

NC is asking KS The Question.

And the answer from the Dr who stresses she's a clinician not a lawyer refers NC to her birth certificate.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 22/07/2025 15:44

Lunde · 22/07/2025 15:42

"Trust me - I'm a doctor"

.... and don't trust the witch SP

And anyway I googled it, she actually just said she relied on google, this is an absolute bin fire 😂

snickersbarchild · 22/07/2025 15:44

This is comedy gold.

Rhaidimiddim · 22/07/2025 15:44

NecessaryScene · 22/07/2025 15:34

That's what I mean - computer expert will point out how the In-reply-to: and References: headers reveal messages with edited subjects were replies, and if to any unrevealed mails.

But it is important to have a witness try to explain the situ, rather than just demonstrate non- discosure. If they admit what they did and try to explain, it looks bad. But denying it because they think NC can't prove it, then she does - that's lying under oath.

Justabaker · 22/07/2025 15:43

Isn't an expert in how sex is determined?

This is jaw dropping stuff from a doctor.

Boiledbeetle · 22/07/2025 15:43

KS: Bluster bluster mutter mutter garbled nonsense

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 22/07/2025 15:43

Not an expert at assigning sex at birth 🤣

NecessaryScene · 22/07/2025 15:43

So I edit the subject before replying

Fine, but be aware, in case of tribunal situations, that the metadata will still indicate what you replied to with a unique ID. Even if you deleted everything in the subject and body of the original message.

GreenFriedTomato · 22/07/2025 15:43

And here is the sex question ..and the answer is hilarious. OMG... She was assigned a gender at birth ..

She can't even answer how sex is assigned at birth without pausing..and saying she's not an expert!!! She's a consultant oh my giddy aunt

ickky · 22/07/2025 15:43

KS NOT an expert at sexing babies at birth!

Apocalypselastyear · 22/07/2025 15:43

Lurking

prh47bridge · 22/07/2025 15:42

KnottyAuty · 22/07/2025 15:35

Yes you can - I do it a lot if someone has used an old/irrelevant header and I want to be able to find the convo later. So I edit the subject before replying

Editing the subject is not editing the header. If you are using Outlook, open a message and look at File, Properties. The dialog box that appears shows the Internet Properties. You can't change those with a standard email client. And they tell you loads of interesting things if you know what to look for.

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 22/07/2025 15:42

ThatCyanCat · 22/07/2025 15:39

That doesn't explain why MNHQ deleted it though. I read it and didn't see anything against guidelines.

Me neither. I've noticed this happening on many threads too, especially in the feminism board.

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