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AIBU?

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Original poster

To refuse to pay for this commission?

328 replies

MikStone · 19/01/2024 08:28

My Sister is an artist and I asked her to paint a portrait of my dog.

Background - she started putting huge signatures across her work in red paint - So many people have told her that the signatures are OTT and distracting and actually ruin the painting - people on Facebook, people in her art group, family members … past customers have asked her not to do it on their portraits but she always does. One person argued with her that the portrait was amazing but was ruined by the signature, they wanted some money knocked off because of it. I asked her “why do you keep doing that when so many people have told you it ruins the pictures??” And she says “it doesn’t ruin them, that’s my style and most people like it” no they don’t!!

anyway when I asked her to do mine I was actually looking around for someone else to do it and when she asked why I hadn’t asked her I told her I don’t like the huge signatures she does. She laughed and said “I don’t have to do the signature!”

So I agreed for her to do it as long as she doesn’t put a massive signature on it.

Weeks later, I’m getting a bit impatient as I really wanted it weeks ago and had I gone to someone else it would have been done by now. She sent me an update on it last week and it was looking amazing, I was so excited about it.

Last night she sent me the finished work - massive red signature across it. I replied saying “why have you ruined it with that stupid signature?! I can’t accept it like that”. She replied saying the signature was a lot smaller than she normally does them and she’s spent weeks on it and needs paying. I don’t want it :-( The agreement was so daft signature, she went against that. WIBU to not accept it?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Emotionalsupportviper · 21/01/2024 18:30

You were actively looking for an artist who would carry out the comission they way YOU specified.

She got fizzy and wanted the commission. You explained why you hadn't;t asked her. She agreed to produce a pet portrait as you asked her - without an obvious signature.

She ignored your instruction.

Don't pay her.

If (say) I asked a decorator to paint my walls very pale blue, and I came in to find that they were bright lime green, I wouldn't pay for the job. This is exactly the same principle.

PlipPlopChoo · 21/01/2024 18:32

I am an artist. And she is right , you are wrong. You KNEW what her drawings look like! You KNEW about the signatures. You CHOSE her drawing. But you want it in some other style that suits you etc. For future - choose artist by their style and dont make artists change their style for you. That is her own expression. And she needs to get paid yes

Re read OPs first post.

OP was originally looking at other artists and OPs sister asked why she was not being picked. OP said she did not like the signatures and the sister said she did not have to include it. Sister than totally ignored this request.

Emotionalsupportviper · 21/01/2024 18:32

Somerandomgirl · 21/01/2024 16:37

I am an artist. And she is right , you are wrong. You KNEW what her drawings look like! You KNEW about the signatures. You CHOSE her drawing. But you want it in some other style that suits you etc.
For future - choose artist by their style and dont make artists change their style for you. That is her own expression. And she needs to get paid yes.

This particular artist insisted that she would change her style in order to get the commission. Then she didn't change her style.

She can express herself when that is what the customer wants - nit when it's what she wants.

She shouldn't be paid.

Emotionalsupportviper · 21/01/2024 18:40

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 20/01/2024 16:09

Actually, I take back all that I said earlier.

I've experimented myself, toiled over my craft, and I now realise that a distinctive, prominent signature from a talented artist can indeed transform an already-beautiful piece into a breath-taking masterpiece.

Breathtaking!

Futurama Buy GIF
Emotionalsupportviper · 21/01/2024 18:45

Lougle · 19/01/2024 11:45

Was it like this?

I would have assumed that Rodrique was the name of the dog . . .

PabloPawcasso · 21/01/2024 18:49

Is this her work?

To refuse to pay for this commission?
OVienna · 21/01/2024 18:55

@PabloPawcasso LOL!

Somerandomgirl · 21/01/2024 18:56

Why would i be ops sister 😂😂people!!! No need to go after me no I'm not 😂

Just working with people i get annoyed sometimes about such complains. All fine all along and once u finish oh i will not pay..

HONESTLY IN MY OPINION THEY ARE SISTERS AND WHY PAY YOUR OWN SISTER, WHY YOUR OWN SISTER WANTS MONEY?!?!? Ive painted things for my close relatives numerous times never asked anything in return.

other than that hey we should start whole tread of artists on mumsnet 😂

Somerandomgirl · 21/01/2024 19:03

BlueMongoose · 21/01/2024 18:29

You mean after they paid for it, or you didn't charge? Either way, that's weird.
My policy is if at the end you don't like, it you pay nothing, but I keep the picture. That way, at worst you may have a disappointed client, but they're not out of pocket as well. And nobody uses not liking it as an excuse to get a job done for free, or cheap. Far to say, I've never had anyone not like mine, but I am careful to involve clients in what I do as I do it, so everyone knows where they are.

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Oh its in the old days, ive learned long ago not to draw without at least deposit. As so many people will try to scam u u know , youre in the same business. The not liking part i mean is a pretend not like it but still keep it u know

tachetastic · 21/01/2024 19:09

MikStone · 19/01/2024 08:28

My Sister is an artist and I asked her to paint a portrait of my dog.

Background - she started putting huge signatures across her work in red paint - So many people have told her that the signatures are OTT and distracting and actually ruin the painting - people on Facebook, people in her art group, family members … past customers have asked her not to do it on their portraits but she always does. One person argued with her that the portrait was amazing but was ruined by the signature, they wanted some money knocked off because of it. I asked her “why do you keep doing that when so many people have told you it ruins the pictures??” And she says “it doesn’t ruin them, that’s my style and most people like it” no they don’t!!

anyway when I asked her to do mine I was actually looking around for someone else to do it and when she asked why I hadn’t asked her I told her I don’t like the huge signatures she does. She laughed and said “I don’t have to do the signature!”

So I agreed for her to do it as long as she doesn’t put a massive signature on it.

Weeks later, I’m getting a bit impatient as I really wanted it weeks ago and had I gone to someone else it would have been done by now. She sent me an update on it last week and it was looking amazing, I was so excited about it.

Last night she sent me the finished work - massive red signature across it. I replied saying “why have you ruined it with that stupid signature?! I can’t accept it like that”. She replied saying the signature was a lot smaller than she normally does them and she’s spent weeks on it and needs paying. I don’t want it :-( The agreement was so daft signature, she went against that. WIBU to not accept it?

Is the signature smaller than usual?

You agreed no massive signature. Did you define massive? You didn't ask for a small signature, just not a "massive" one. If it is smaller than she usually signs her work, and you didn't agree on a small signature, then I have some sympathy with your sister.

Sarvanga38 · 21/01/2024 19:19

BlueMongoose · 21/01/2024 18:12

You're suggesting that 200 quid is expensive?
Hahahahahahaah.
How long do you think a decent portrait takes to do? Then compare that with the rate for a decent tradesman of any other sort.....

200 quid is not expensive in art terms, at least for a professional job. At the extreme, there are watercolour paintbrushes that cost 3x that (yes I know, but there are, and even those I use cost about 20-35 quid each) , though of course oil brushes cost less (good job because you need lots more of them). One small tube of pro-quality oil paint costs between 8-35 quid, depending on the colour. Then there is canvas, stretchers, primer, etc.- and if the work is framed, the frame, which, again, for a pro job would start at about 60 quid for a small one in a modest narrow moulding. It's not at all unusual for my frames to cost £200+.

Just as an aside, I wonder how many people here know that most galleries take between 40% and 50% of the on-the-wall price?

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I guess it depends on size, but I’ve certainly paid well under £200 for this size from someone who paints at this quality in oils. None of the slightly wonky faces you see from so many pet portrait artists!

To refuse to pay for this commission?
Baldieheid · 21/01/2024 19:20

Somerandomgirl · 21/01/2024 16:37

I am an artist. And she is right , you are wrong. You KNEW what her drawings look like! You KNEW about the signatures. You CHOSE her drawing. But you want it in some other style that suits you etc.
For future - choose artist by their style and dont make artists change their style for you. That is her own expression. And she needs to get paid yes.

What nonsense.

PinkEasterbunny · 21/01/2024 19:22

Stick to your guns OP

unsurprised · 21/01/2024 19:35

Don't budge if you said 'no massive signature' and her reply is 'but I did as you asked - it's only a large/medium signature'

She's either being disingenuous, or really needs to learn to figure out what customers mean and do that.

£200 should be a day's work - fairly easy for her to re-do, and it sounds like she really should.

WiddlinDiddlin · 21/01/2024 19:39

Somerandomgirl · 21/01/2024 16:37

I am an artist. And she is right , you are wrong. You KNEW what her drawings look like! You KNEW about the signatures. You CHOSE her drawing. But you want it in some other style that suits you etc.
For future - choose artist by their style and dont make artists change their style for you. That is her own expression. And she needs to get paid yes.

Bollocks.

A signature scrawled large across the subject is not a 'style' its an element, and in this case an unwanted affectation, that was agreed would not be included.

Taking commissions is not easy work (I know, it's why I rarely do it!) - you agree a brief with the client, and you stick to it.

If the client turns out to want something completely beyond your style/capabilities/interests... then you turn the job done and don't take their money.

What you do not do (if you want to keep selling and get a good reputation) is include elements that you previously agreed not to, and go off-brief and then demand payment.

NameChangeForMeYetAgain · 21/01/2024 19:43

MikStone · 19/01/2024 17:40

Your wish is my command! 😂

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I love this! Would you mind if I printed and framed it here?

thebestinterest · 21/01/2024 19:43

The sign of an amateur.

KittensandPerverts · 21/01/2024 20:01

Sarvanga38 · 21/01/2024 19:19

I guess it depends on size, but I’ve certainly paid well under £200 for this size from someone who paints at this quality in oils. None of the slightly wonky faces you see from so many pet portrait artists!

Show quote history

Fixed that for you.

To refuse to pay for this commission?
Idontknowanymor · 21/01/2024 20:04

Yes, a big red signature.

ReadingSoManyThreads · 21/01/2024 20:18

A verbal agreement is binding in the UK @MikStone so if she tried to take you to small claims, it's unlikely she'd win.

She told you she didn't have to do the signature. On that basis, you decided to let her do it, despite her knowing you were looking at other artists to do the commission, precisely because of you not liking her signature.

You have it in writing you questioning why she's done the signature.

Refuse to accept it, refuse to pay. She'll just have to use it as a display piece if she ever displays her work.

Don't take the painting from her, or else really you'll have to pay her something, even if it's less than originally agreed.

AnneValentine · 21/01/2024 20:56

This was always going to be the outcome. Don’t accept it. Don’t pay her.

DreamTheMoors · 21/01/2024 21:08

This would make me SO ANGRY and SO INSULTED and SO INCENSED that I’d refuse the painting, refuse the redo, refuse to pay and tell my sister that her narcissistic ridiculous red-paint signature is ugly and that even her “paintings” aren’t all that abfab and the joke of the art world.
Then I’d turn around and leave and not speak to her until she comprehends those very words - even if it costs me my (quite surely) tenuous relationship with my sister.
Sheezus. It seems as though folks have been mollycoddling this woman for far too long.
Who’s been telling her she’s all that and a bag of chips? Or who hasn’t been telling her she needs to knock that shit off?
Looks like it’s time for the “cast iron skillet” method of convincing.

bombardelli · 21/01/2024 22:38

BlueMongoose · 21/01/2024 17:25

Wrong, verbal contracts are still enforceable. But if what was delivered wasn't what was ordered, then the contract hasn't been met.

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Verbal agreements are difficult to prove in a court of law, I really wouldn’t rely on one.

Agree · 21/01/2024 22:52

People need to remember this is the OP's sister we're debating.

Not just a client verbal agreement.

Maybe for the sake of family harmony, you could express your disappointment at the signature and wonder politely if it could be painted out?

And if she's completely disagreeable, realise that you have a sister who is quite the special case and probably just pay for the painting and call it a £200 life lesson to never commission her again? Some lessons you can't learn at college you have to do them the short sharp shock way.

MammaOmamma · 21/01/2024 23:12

Signature is shocking, especially on a commissioned piece. And needs to paint over it entirely, a tiny grey one in corner will suffice.
Can't she see how she wont get any repeat customers - nobody wants a series of shit red signatures across their walls. The poor clients must have been heartbroken