"We'd rather have anyone for this job but you!"

[Tanzie]

Well that's how it feels. I applied for a job within the organisation I work for recently. It was on promotion (one step up from where I am now, and I am due promotion within the next two years). I knew that they weren't going to get many applicants - it is fairly techie stuff. I have all the right background and experience, the right contacts, but am not "in the grade". I found out tonight that I am the only applicant. They are not going to give me the job, but are going to readvertise it. I heard this from the present incumbent, I have not heard it from "the top". I am not sure what grounds they are going to have for telling me I can't have it (perhaps they will say that I can reapply when it is readvertised), but will be interested to know. They can't use the argument that I am not in the right grade, as it was open to anyone with the relevant experience (if they had wanted it to go to someone in the grade, they could have advertised specifying that they wouldn't consider anyone of a lower grade).

I am, however, the only woman with young children working there, and I do come in 15 minutes later than most other people as I drop the kids off at school. I do get some stick for this, in a lighthearted way (which nevertheless irritates me), but am there until at least 1830 every night. I work hard, put in my hours and pull my weight and I think I deserve this promotion. I don't understand what grounds they would have for turning me down - they let me apply for this job, so why let me do that if they weren't going to give me a fighting chance at it?

Sorry, am rambling now, but am v v peed off.

Whoof Tanzie that sounds grim.

You deserve some serious feedback from them. Was it application only or did you interview? I'm not sure if you have the right to see the notes from the interview, you could always ask?

Can't believe they let the incumbent know the result before they told you. Hope the gossip was wrong.

No, they wouldn't have interviewed (for various complicated reasons which I won't go into), it is assessed on paper. I will be interested to see what feedback I get if they do readvertise. I think they need to have very good grounds. I could always hope that they are too scared of me to say no to me formally and offer me the job but I don't think that's going to happen.

Not sure if this will help or not but in a previous role I was involved in performing a desktop exercise to assess internal candidates against set criteria for particular roles - i.e. no interview. We needed to have very strict agreed criteria against which each candidate was scored - i.e no interviews. Full records were maintained and each decision was checked by another manager. What I am trying to say is surely they must have performed a similar exercise in this case and so should be able to demonstrate which particular skills you were missing or had insufficient experience and you should of course have full access to this information for personal development plans . Well I would ask for it anyway and see what the response is - they might then be to scared to say you haven't got it.

Thanks, Gomez, good idea. I'll try and get something in writing. But if they are now saying I have insufficient experience, shouldn't they have told me this earlier? They had to give me permission to apply for the job and agreed that I had all the relevant experience when they did so!

Mmmm... I would ask aome very pointed questions then. God Luck.

hi tanzie, you could word your questions in a sort what areas do I need to improve to get this job, so it can be put on my personal development plan. Then you can bring it up in your appraisal and perhaps they will they have to do something.
Have a good christmas any-way.

Tanzie, ask them for a copy of the criteria they used so that you can compare against both, your application and the advert. It is out of order to use selection criteria which is not specified in the advert or job specification. I hope you have been misinformed and that you get the job.

Is it a small organisation T? I think many are scared stiff to hire women who have or may be having a family. The company I used to work for actually used to ask about pregnancy plans even though it's a clear no-no. They took on a single woman in her early 40's after me (reportedly in case I could not 'cope' after mat leave) within a year she met love of her life and had baby last summer . They were completely freaked out by that. Although their attitude towards working mums was completely illegal, basically, it was all done in a covert way and everyone was too intimidated to confront it. So bear that in mind, and don't take anything personally in the sense that it dents your confidence. I would ask the 'top' how your application is progressing, as you are really enthusiastic about the opportunity etc etc, maybe you can get a bit more info, it's not on to hear through the present incumbent, and you will get a better idea from the horsse's mouth in any case> good luck

Sis - that's an excellent idea. I checked what they wanted and I have everything on their "shopping list" in bucketloads.

Wild - it's a fairly small department in a bigger organisation, but is heavily male dominated, and the few women they have are single career women with cats. Except me...

to those cats! hope you get the job, let us know how things go.

I have a cat too ...left over from my single career woman days - she's now 19!

Quick update: I found out this morning quite by chance that they have readvertised the job. They have not even had the courtesy to tell me that they were doing so. I am not at work at the moment (DD has been in hospital), but a friend from work rang me and said that she thought I should know that they are readvertising it. I can reapply - thankfully the closing date is after I return to work - but I think this just reinforces the point that they don't want me. I know response to the ad was minimal (I may have been the only applicant) but I think they should have had the courtesy to tell me that they were readvertising it. They might try and use the excuse that I wasn't around when the ad appeared, but it's clear that the decision was made before Christmas, when I definitely was around.

Think they are looking for chinless wonder with penis but no balls

Teeny tiny penis obviously.
Missed this first time out Tanzie and sorry to hear of it. But how is your dd? OK I hope.

Don't know if it's any help, but when I interview, I have to score candidates against a pre-agreed set of criteria. Anyone wishing to see their results can. Do they have the same thing in your company?

They don't interview, it is done on application form, where you have to sell yourself. I think if I don't get it though, they will just say that they wanted someone who was already at the right grade (it would be promotion for me), although it was open to anyone with the right experience, which I do have (and it is fairly techy stuff, so they are unlikely to get anyone of the higher grade with the right experience, but I think they would go for this rather than have me).

DD is fine, thanks, Marina, but off school for the rest of the week as she has had an operation on her arm.

It gets worse. Have just found out that they have told a colleague who is in the grade that she can apply for the job (she was previously deemed ineligible as she works in a very different field). Why didn't they tell me straight off that they didn't want me and have saved me all this angst? I read this as: if we don't have any applicants for the job, we'd rather have her than you (even if she has no experience and no idea what the job involves).

Am ringing my union tomorrow.

Long term sick leave for stressis looking very appealing.

Quick update. My union were very unhelpful. They said that the department and HR had told them they didn't want me for the job, they wanted someone already in the grade and did not think I was up to it. When I said, basically, how dare they ask my department without my say so, they then retracted and said that they had not spoken to them or HR, but what they had said was based on "their experience of what usually happens." I checked with the head of dept, and they had never asked him. But it looks like the woman who is in the grade and is being allowed to apply exceptionally is going to get the job regardless.

I have asked the union for an apology, but it has not been forthcoming.