Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Flip

Original poster

employment law (again) Friend having a crap time at work -Is it ok for a school to do this?

17 replies

yogabird · 15/06/2007 21:13

my friend is a teacher , she was full time until kids and has been part time since returning (last two years). She does 0.6 of a timetable and is paid pro rata (pension, BUPA etc) She has been told that from Sept her hours will be cut to 0.35 of a timetable. A colleague will retire in the summer and been replaced ( a job that my friend aplied for, but didn't get). He has now been offered a part time position at the sschool teaching, among other things, what she is teaching currently.

Does this sound right to you? It seems that they shouldn't be able to do this.

OP posts:

Hulababy · 15/06/2007 21:15

Doesn't sound good. Definitely recommend her talking to her union, or at least e-mailing them with the details.

Does she have a permanent contract witht he school, or a temporary fixed term one?

Original poster

yogabird · 15/06/2007 21:35

she isn't in a union and i have a feeling they won't advise on matters that happen before you join. Not sure about the contract, i think permanent but will ask her as she's coming down to stay tomorrow.

does anyone know where else you can get advice? Or can anyone advise further?

OP posts:

Hulababy · 15/06/2007 21:41

CAB or employment lawyer.

As a teacher she really did ought to belong to a union.

Hulababy · 15/06/2007 21:42

She could email the union anyway and see what they say.

Moomin · 15/06/2007 21:45

WHY isn't she in a union in a profession like teaching?? She could have a look on the NASUWT or NUT websites and see what they say about part-time work, but I can say from very very bitter recent experience that a school get round doing what they want as long as they can justify it financially or some-such bullshit. One thing I would check is that the job the other person's coming in to do was advertised and applied for and interviewed for correctly (ie he didn't come in through the 'back door')

I'm working 0.4 and asked at the beginning of the year to work 0.6 from Sept. It's not been given to me and the Head has just said it's up to them what they do; they can staff the dept. without my working that extra day so he's not granted my request.

Original poster

yogabird · 15/06/2007 22:02

the part time job he was given wasn't advertised, he was just given it after he retired to keep him on for a bit. It's an independent school so only ATL union is any good isn't it?

OP posts:

morningpaper · 15/06/2007 22:04

Hmm it sounds as though they are sort of making her position redundant because someone else is taking over her job as part of their job, which is technically OK I think

Really PLEASE don't be a teacher without being part of a union!

cat64 · 15/06/2007 22:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ravenAK · 15/06/2007 22:15

A bloody minded Head can go a long way to making someone's life a misery in order to get rid of a P/Ter who doesn't fit his/her grand scheme of things.

My mate's in a similar situation - for the third year running, the Head has promised her one P/T arrangement then changed it at short notice to suit himself.

Her Union's told him to back off twice. She's not sure she can face the fight a 3rd time, coupled with our Head's routinely unprofessional behaviour towards anyone he's taken a downer to...

Sorry for hijack! It's a grisly situation. Agree with MP - if you are a teacher, you need a Union. If you're a parent AND a teacher - you really need a Union!

BetsyBoop · 16/06/2007 09:24

I would suggest your friend speaks to the ACAS helpline people

If she has a permanent contract to work those hours I don't think he can change it without her agreement (especially as it sounds like he's give part of her hours to a new employee )

found this on the DTI website, which seems to support this "Changing the total number of hours an worker works has profound implications for the commitments that person can take on outside the workplace. An increase in hours may hamper caring arrangements. A decrease in hours may cause serious financial difficulties.

In some cases, the operational needs of an organisation may make it necessary to change the number of hours that workers work. This is a contractual matter, and must be agreed with the workers concerned. Full consideration should be given to the circumstances of individual workers, and changes should be made with as much notice as possible."

However I'm no employment lawyer, sop definitely speak to ACAS

and I agree, working with children she should really be in a union...

edam · 16/06/2007 09:27

agree re ACAS and also she should check her contract of employment - what does that say about hours?

BetsyBoop · 16/06/2007 09:37

this might also help

NKF · 16/06/2007 09:37

Is she in a private school? I wondered that because of the BUPA reference. I agree with everyone else - she needs to take advice.

ebenezer · 16/06/2007 10:29

I've known this happen with several part timers. I have one colleague who has a proportion of her time 'protected' ie she is guaranteed the euqivalent of 2 days work per week, and then the rest has fluctuated over the last few years depending on other factors. In dp's school (independent) part timers certainly have far less security and their hours are upped or downed each year according to needs of the school. Def a reason for securing a full time contract if possible!

chocolatekimmy · 16/06/2007 10:32

Changing someones hours either way is a breach of contract technically and therefore should only be done so with the agreement with the individual. If they don't agree they have to resign and go for constructive dismissal/breach of contract.

If the job is redundant then they need to follow consultation, selection criteria etc and go through that process.

I think the retired guy has been offered a part time role from what I understand of your post - if thats the case that doesn't seem fair. I assume they have a recruitment policy, i.e: they have to advertise vacancies and go through a robust selection process ect. Sounds like they have breached their own policy if they have one.

She should first discuss the cut in hours and see how they are handling that and also put in a formal grievance about the other part time role that has just been filled. Definately has a good case against having her contract breached by way of hours being cut if someone else has been appointed to carry out work that is being taken away from her

Original poster

yogabird · 17/06/2007 15:22

Thank you all so much for your advice. I am the one having this trouble at the mo and your advice is very encouraging. Am not sure what I am going to do vis a vis fighting the decision but I think I will go and talk to HR tomorrow and see what they have to say on the matter. After all this I really think that leaving is going to be my next move - a shame but a necessity for my sanity and health.

OP posts:

islandofsodor · 17/06/2007 21:14

Very very surprised that as a teacher your friend is not in a union.

NASUWT represent some of the teacher's in my dd's independant school. I know this because they went on strike last term!

Flip