Reasonable adjustments

[erinaceus]

Hi MNetters

In regards reasonable adjustments for employees who have experienced or are experiencing a medical problem which affects or is affected by their role at work, who adjudicates on whether a requested adjustment is reasonable? I raised a suggestion with my manager and there was some pushback, and now I feel hellish guilty for asking at all. In my opinion the adjustment I requested would be mutually beneficial for me and my organization; my manager expressed concerns.

I would be surprised if the difference of opinion between me and my manager becomes a practical barrier in my case, but I am curious as to how an adjustment being reasonable is determined.

The reason I used the word stigma is that, even if people don't openly say anything, you'll always get the petty ones who resent an employee being given what could be perceived as special treatment (even though, as erinaceus has described, it can be a daily battle dealing with MH, to try to live as reasonable a quality life as possible). That's why I suggested trying to make the wfh as straightforward as possible to blend in with the rest of the department/team.

Thank you everyone for the practical suggestions. Stigma and discrimination are both things that happen. I accept that. I believe it to be unlikely that I lose my job over this, but who knows.

To be brutally honest - because you have been so helpful on this thread - if I am having suicidal thoughts, I prefer to stay away from train stations. This is the real reason for the train thing. If I have suicidal thoughts they typically pass after a couple of days; if they get worse then I need to come off work and seek further support. I did not really want to mention this to OH not my management, because suicidal ideation can come across as manipulative or threatening. The last time I had this feeling was after the Manchester bombing; it passed within a couple of days.

My opinion is that it is a poor idea to disclose this to OH or management, but maybe it would help them? The thing about aggression particularly from men being harder to cope with when I am feeling more fragile is also true, but is less of a safety thing and more of a productivity thing in as much as if I get shaken up I cannot actually do any work. Work is unlikely to make me feel suicidal, but I worry that someone will make the assumption that an employee who experiences suicidal thoughts cannot be a productive employee, which I do not believe to be true.

Apologies if this post distresses anyone. I wasn't sure whether to post this or not. In case anyone feels concerned for me, I am doing well at the moment, otherwise I wouldn't be talking about returning to work, but I do accept that I might feel suicidal again in the future. Hopefully not, but I am pragmatic too.

erinaceous I think you probably just need to say that when you are very stressed the thought of railway stations makes you very anxious and leave it there.

I hope you are getting sufficient support. Are there loved ones in real life who you can depend on? I Don't like to think of you coping with ideation on your own.

Yes, I am well supported thanks @OhTheRoses Thanks for your insight. I have spent too long in MH services and seem to have lost perspective on how much these things do or don't need to be disclosed.

The ideation is horrific but I have more coping strategies than I did in the past, and a crisis plan in place now which I did not have before. MN is great as well, I get a lot of support here.

In hindsight I am amazed I stayed in work for as long as I did before I took medical leave to be honest. It got to the point where commuting was really, really hard and I had zero productivity. I am so glad that that period is behind me. I plan to do a couple of trial runs into the office before I return to work, just to see how I get on. I do not anticipate problems but if there are it would be good to know before I return so that I can work around them.

I have experienced stigma only in the form of teasing or inappropriate comments from colleagues, which I do challenge if I have the energy. Management and OH have been amazing on the whole. I think that my time off has affected my career trajectory a bit but I am career-young and career progression is not my priority just now. I do not view this as discriminatory, indeed, it is probably a positive that I do not have line management responsibility as part of my job description at the moment.

I have experienced stigma only in the form of teasing or inappropriate comments from colleagues

What you describe is direct bullying. Highly inappropriate in the workplace. However, it sounds like you have managed it in most cases, I admire you for that on top of the MH challenges.

You can be proud of holding down your job and I wish you well in staying there, as it sounds like it is a positive contribution in your life (hopefully builds your self-esteem) and if you can get things formalised with your employers it will help.

i wouldn't give too much detail, only sufficient to influence them to give you the flexible arrangements. Sometimes 'less is more'. Take care.

Suicide ideation is serious. I would personally think it would be better asking for more leeway in regards to absenteeism instead of what when you are experiencing more difficult periods of MH.

*instead of continuing to WFH

Suicide ideation is serious.

I agree that suicidal ideation is serious, but it doesn't follow that coming off work is the better option when one is experiencing suicidal ideation. In my case, coming off work might lead to me feeling more isolated or bored, whereas my work is a form of social contact, rewarding, satisfying, and also a good distraction from thoughts that can be distressing. You might be interested in the responses you might get if you were to raise this issue on the MH board.

What you describe is direct bullying. Highly inappropriate in the workplace.

I agree. It is difficult to handle being on the receiving end of this type of behaviour. However, bullying happens in workplaces. It's a thing. In some ways this is among the lesser of my concerns right now.

The 'less is more' thing is accurate. It's curious where the line is. Suicidal ideation is incredibly taboo even though it is relatively common.

Thank you everyone for your comments. They have helped me a great deal.

However, bullying happens in workplaces. It's a thing.

But it shouldn't be accepted as a thing. It should be tackled. Maybe not now while you have all those plates spinning in the air at the same time. Don't let those people too much 'off the hook' (but not need to be a hero). You may have heard about the Audi dealership on here, where a young intern took his life after being bullied. It triggered his MH challenge. Organisations should be held accountable to keep people like you and that man safe from harm. Your colleagues making snidely comments to you isn't acceptable behaviour, so all I'm saying is don't normalise it, you deserve better!

Please continue to use this board as a source of support. If you think it helps, feel free to update us as you get things sorted out with your employers.

It shouldn't be accepted as a thing. It should be tackled.

There are lots of things that shouldn't be but are.

To derail my own thread, one of the most difficult occasions I remember in my working life was witnessing was what I perceived as this person (my colleague who bullies) bullying a third colleague. I had no idea what to do. My management manage from a different office for two layers up, so did not witness the behaviour. In the end, the person whom I thought was being bullied left the company.

What ought one to do in such a situation? I had know idea.

If I am on the receiving end of this type of thing I tend to tackle it directly. There's an emotional cost involved in that but I have made my peace with it. There is also a reputarional cost involved in calling our bullying to management. It's a tough one, IMO.

Your comments re bullying are well made. Unfortunately there are policies implemented nowadays that are only there to tick the corporate box and very often are unenforceable and impossible for a bullied employee to benefit from.

The reason they are hard to enforce daisychain is that when companies investigate the witnesses when interviewed don't support the complainant so managers are hard pressed even in cases where they know there is a problem , to issue formal sanctions. This leaves standard setting, mediation, team building, etc.

I know there are horrible people about and sometimes those working with them come to see me. I usually advise them they can raise a grievance but honestly it will usually fracture already poor relationships.

It is better for the person who perceives bullying to focus on assertiveness and mindfulness and for management to deal with a bully informally. It is a hard problem because not everyone will perceive them as bullies. Shouting, yelling, throwing if witnessed is straightforward but the insidious stuff isn't.

I have no idea of the logistics of travel to your workplace, so forgive me for my ignorance, but your request sounds much more logical now you have added that detail. So I think I would have worded it as follows:

"Due to x mental health condition, there are times when train travel is difficult, worsens my mental health, and could ultimately jeopardise my physical safety. Unfortunately, it is not possible to predict in advance when these situations will arise, but currently they are infrequent. When they do arise, it would be helpful if taxi travel could be arranged by to my place of work, or is this is not practical, working from home may be permitted until my mental health recovers, which is usually within 3 days."

The company would probably say 'taxi travel too expensive, work from home.

Could you ask for an occupational health assessment?

I think lougle's wording is great.

Thank you lougle. Your wording is helpful.

I was thinking about things last night. The suggestion that I let OH know why it is that I feel the way I do about the commute was put to me a couple of times, which is why I raised it here. When this suggestion was made to me I went as my intuition was that this level of detail was not something OH needed to know. This is why it is helpful to hear other MNetters' take on the idea.

OH have been assessing me in an ongoing way. However their assessment does not ask about risk, whereas more or less every contact I have with MH services I am asked about risk. Maybe OH's MH assessment should ask about risk; maybe my employer prefer that MH risk assessments are not done for liability reasons. Who knows?

I remember once hearing something along the lines of resilience training being corporate speak for teaching employees to tolerate bullying, which I consider to be accurate on a number of levels.

Erinaceous OHP will not focus on risk. Their remit is to advise the Employer whether you are well enough to do all or part of your job, with adjustments if required. Their remit is to assess your health in relation to work, not how you should be treated or to make you better if that helps. You really don't want HOP to advise you are unfit for work or parts of your work for the foreseeable future.

I still think you should apply for an Access to Work assessment - they may well pay for the taxis or other ways to travel.

Best wishes.

Shouting, yelling, throwing if witnessed is straightforward but the insidious stuff isn't

Thats so true, Roses. Even the overt bullying is difficult to deal with. People who could act as witnesses keep their head below the parapet because they don't want to risk their own career or standing with management.

Thanks OhTheRoses. That makes sense, and is interesting when I couple it with daisychain01's comment that Organisations should be held accountable. The website about the Access to Work assessment indicates that if I were to request an assessment from them they would contact my employer. I'll see how things pan out over the coming couple of meetings. I would imagine that it is going to be alright one way or the other.

Well good luck, take care and let us know how you get on. I hope your recovery continues.

Does your employer provide tools which make WFH easier? We have all docs on a central repository (repositories, to be more accurate,) so as long as you've got access to the company network via the VPN, you can get at any docs you need. Plus you can do video calls from laptops (including to teleconferences) and sign your phone in to your laptop or any office phone set.

I too work for a global company, and these tools mean I can work from pretty much any of our offices or from home. It doesn't matter that I have colleagues in different countries, and it means I am more likely to attend calls which are out of hours for me (though I am not intending to be on the one at 3am my time next week, even if that does suit HK...)

So for us, because of the tools we have, people's physical location isn't so important. Nothing beats face-to-face meetings, but they're not possible all the time - however, for those who work PT, we do aim to have everyone in the dept available on one day for team meetings.

So what I'm trying to say is, can you show how your work tools will facilitate you when you WFH, to strengthen your case? Depends a bit on the role, obviously, because not all roles can avoid being face-to-face, but there's often more flexibility than is allowed.

EBearhug - absolutely. The job can be done from anywhere. I believe that in practise this my occasionally working from home for a few days will be a non-issue, but I wanted to have a transparent conversation with my manager about it rather than change my work pattern without anyone being aware of why that might be.

My questions was more, who decides what sort of adjustment is reasonable, and the answer seems to be that there are no definitive guidelines. As far as I can see I am disabled under the Equality Act 2010 (link) and this leads to my being eligible for an assessment under the Government's Access to Work scheme, which is useful to know - for example this could cover the cost of taxis to and from the office as a previous poster mentioned. It is also helpful for me to understand the role of OH and why their line of reasoning is sometimes somewhat perplexing to me.

Update: this thread is accurate, right down to the notion that if I feel as if I need to work from home for a few days did I really need the added stress of work? This was the response from my management line.

For me, work is not a source of stress in general, and my treatment team are suggesting that I return. I explained this to my management. My next step is to meet with my GP, followed by OH. I think that if my GP communicates what I need to OH they might be able to advise my manager about what is appropriate in terms of adjustments. The Access to Work scheme might have a role, and/or OH might have support available. I will investigate further.

Thanks to everyone on this thread for their input. It helped me.