Conversion Practices Bill : unintended benefits for trans widows?

[TinselAngel]

I’ve decided that Trans Widows Voices won’t be joining the campaign to oppose the Conversion Practices Bill outright.
The Bill raises serious concerns for us, particularly the risk of it being used against non-affirming wives. But it could also offer some protection to trans widows, and I don’t think we should ignore that possibility.
Instead, TWV will submit evidence to the committee, setting out our concerns but also asking for clarifications such as whether it will protect us from our husbands pressuring us to identify as lesbians. I’ve written an article about it which I’ll link in my next post.

Here it is:
https://www.terftimes.com/p/could-the-conversion-practices-bill-offer-an-opportunity-for-trans-widows/

Bloody fair enough. Can’t have their cake and all that. Oh wait it’s not rational nor logical people we’re dealing with is it?

But you’re right to expose yet another absurdity.

I doubt very much that if the Conversion Practices Bill becomes law, suddenly politicians, the captured legal system, and the police are going to start listening to women who have trans-identified husbands, no matter what complaints or arguments they have. You may not get the "unintended" benefits you are hoping for.

It's a bad Bill. I think we should all get behind opposing it as strongly as we can.

I think it’s really good to expose all the unintended (because it would be) consequences of this ridiculous bill.

I understand your hope that this ridiculous bill could be used to stop forcing trans widows to sumbit to their husband's perverted pressures. And I support your decision to put in your own objections to the bill on your own terms. But I sincerely doubt that should it pass, that trans widows will be given any leeway or special considerations as a result of it. I would expect that the trans lobby will work harder than ever to remove the spousal veto under such a bill. But, as others have said, exposing the absurdities in this bill to those tasked with drafting it can only be a good thing.

But as I thought about the matter more it began to occur to me that if one group of people is to be protected by law from having their identity or sexual orientation converted, then surely this must also apply to the pressure to convert that trans widows are subjected to. [my bold]

@TinselAngel Yeah, that won't happen. We have a whole decade or more of evidence that women come fourth or fifth, or lower, in the Who Has Rights pecking order, behind men, other men who wear dresses in secret, more men who wear dresses in public, and dogs. Even with laws on our side, we still come last.

“We have a whole decade or more of evidence that women come fourth or fifth, or lower, in the Who Has Rights pecking order, behind men, other men who wear dresses in secret, more men who wear dresses in public, and dogs.”

And sadly this includes women who capitulate, even though they may not realise it.

seems to me the bill is mainly targeted at the wives\ daughters of abusive middle aged dads - to get dissenters criminalised/ arrested if they won't submit\ call men women. The bill reflects this:
https://childrenoftransitioners.org/the-college-of-police-and-cps-domestic-abuse-guidance-is-a-danger-to-women-and-children-like-us/

And Olivia Bailey, MP, just met with men who ID as women/ trans groups, not the women affected. Like the police. Coercive control and vawg to be welcomed if the abuser is trans?

Well said @TinselAngel 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Of course the drafters and supporters of the bill won't expect it to be useful for trans widows, but it's interesting to hear that it could be. Good luck with your submission.

This seems like a good way to highlight the bill’s absurdity and how its poor drafting will lead to unintended consequences.

I'm alright Jack. 🤯

You think rather than ask questions about both sides of the issue for us, we should just sacrifice ourselves for the greater good?

I hope it all goes well and the MPs actually listen and heed what they will be hearing Tinsel Angel

No one should pressure anyone into anything! If someone's being sexually abusive, report them.

This Bill will help abused kids do the same.

No one should pressure anyone into anything! If someone's being sexually abusive, report them

For all the good that’ll do 🙄

This Bill will help abused kids do the same.

Define ‘abused’

Isn’t sexually abusing kids already a crime?

Oh definitely put in a submission explaining how Transwidows might benefit from the proposed legislation, Tinsel! 🙏

There is not a cat in hell's chance that a majority of members of the Pre-Legislative Scrutiny Committee would want to see that as a possibility so they will be having kittens!

Not that there is the remotest chance that Transwidows would benefit.

I have just deleted my detailed explanation of why I think that Transwidows would be even worse off if this becomes law because I really do not want to discourage you from suggesting to the Committee that Transwidows might benefit, to the detriment of their spouses.

If every Transwidow could do the same then you could sink this ship before it leaves port and the rest of us need hardly lift a finger - and you will avoid being in an even worse position than you are now if this Draft Bill were to become law.

Exactly. The way to get it dropped is to make it too difficult IMO. The Tories already went through that process.

Copying post over from @stealthsquirrelnutkinon the duplicate thread;

"if one group of people is to be protected by law from having their identity or sexual orientation converted, then surely this must also apply to the pressure to convert that trans widows are subjected to. After all, the government’s guidance on the bill states that it is “designed … to be symmetrical, which means it covers practices where the attempts aim to change a person from or to [our emphasis] LGBT+”."
Well spotted Tinsel, though the people responsible for the bill have so far shown zero empathy for transwidows and the nightmare they find themselves trapped in, once it dawns on them that they have been deceived and betrayed by the person who promised to love and honour them.
Society expects them to change their own sexuality and become a "lesbian", who gets the same sexual satisfaction from going lingerie and make-up shopping with her new "wife" as he does. Which is a bit harsh, especially considering how manly a lot of the men are who decide to transition after marriage and children.
She is supposed to transfer her affections from the big butch chap she thought was going to protect her and their offspring, and somehow continue to find a way to be attracted to him when he blows their family savings on himself and wants her to "ravage" him in bed (but only according to his own very strict instructions, so that he remains in control the entire time). Otherwise she's a bigot who wants him to commit suicide.
A shockingly large percentage of our politicians don't even want married women to have the choice to annul a marriage after one partner in the contract declares their intention to completely change the terms of the agreement.
That is obvious from the way they denounce the provision built into the gender recognition act that allows a woman to annul her marriage, and legally escape an intolerable situation if her husband declares himself a "woman". Instead trans ideologists expect the woman to go along with the "fact" that she had been in a lesbian relationship all along, with no regard to her own feelings, or her religious beliefs.
I've heard this described as a cruel "spousal veto" where the poor man is stopped from following his true path by a nasty controlling wife. Though a few minutes of online research reveals that it doesn't prevent his legal transition, it only pauses his progression for long enough that an annulment has time to go through.
It was built into the original law so that no woman who married a man finds herself trapped in a marriage with another "woman", but now it is seen as a reward for bigotry and a cruel attack on the "most vulnerable" person in the relationship. Of course in the real world, sane people can still see who is "most vulnerable" when man decides to sacrifice his family for his own gratification.
Even that tiny bit of consideration towards women sends some TRAs into frothing and vengeful rage, and our politicians have shown they are happy to throw women and children to the wolves if it means they get to escape the attentions of the ravening pack.
Which is why I doubt that anyone will do more than snort derisively when transwidows protest that their own sexual orientation is being forcibly changed against their wishes.
Now that you have brought it to their attention someone will already be working on how to twist the narrative, to further enable the abuse of women and children and enable men to follow urges they would have kept well hidden twenty years ago. Perhaps the BBC is interviewing a few more drag queens this morning so they can explain it to us.

Nothing to add but but just to say I’m proud of what you are doing

Sauce for the goose and all that.

We all know this isn't what they intend, and it's definitely punching down (to use their phrasing) to expect a woman who's already been through all of this to now have to fight in court, but surely they can see by now that there will be a woman who stands up and does it. The Women Who Wouldn't Wheesht, Sandie Peggie, the Darlington nurses etc. Not everyone has the strength left, but one of us will, and the absurdity and unfairness will become clear

Good luck Tinsel. Wouldn’t it be nice if something actually did protect trans widows. Suspect patriarchy will triumph but well done for pointing that out.

That’s quite the curveball. If this poorly thought out legislation does go through, there’s the possibility of one hell of a test case, there.

Completly get why you wont be joining the opposition to the bill Tinsel. All those groups that ignored transwidows while platforming their abusive husbands who now want your support should have thought about this side as well. But as they didn't listen to you and other transwidows at the time it is highly unlikely they will listen now unless it suits their own purposes.
Its a great piece of writing and it really sets out the transwidows position well