Cross-country runners protest transgender teammate's participation

[zanahoria]

When the horn sounded, signaling the start of a Tuesday afternoon 5k cross-country race, about half of the girls wearing Camas High School singlets hung back. A pack of runners separated from them within seconds. They didn’t follow.

Instead, they walked off the start line, forfeiting their race in protest of their transgender teammate’s participation.

The protest, which involved approximately a dozen girls on the Camas High School cross-country team, came on the heels of mounting attention directed toward a transgender sophomore on the girls team.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/high-school/camas-cross-country-runners-protest-transgender-teammate-as-tensions-mount/

I saw this on FB. Good on those girls, it isn’t easy to stand up to this nonsense, especially for very young women. I’m in awe of them and would be bloody proud if my daughter did that.

Yup, echo this.

For absolute shame of all the grown ups who’ve cheered this on, that the girls have been left with no choice but to deal with it themselves.

Rather a frustrating article

Debate surrounding the WIAA’s policy, which was implemented during the 2008-09 school year, was intensified in recent years alongside national conversations about transgender athletes’ participation in girls and women’s sports.

Literally nobody cares if transgender athletes compete in girls and women's sports as long as they are female.

The problem is boys and men competing in girls and women's sports.

Is the reason not obvious?

At the start of the season, she placed 76th in a boys junior varsity race on Sept. 5 with a time of 23:10.

Race results show that she began competing in the girls category on Sept. 15, and has run in three dual meets and two invites since. She placed first in a dual meet against Union High School with a time of 19:29 in late September.

Those girls must be over 60 and just don't understand the terminology..😏
.
Many of our audience are over sixty. They don’t understand the terminology
Woman’s Hour, programme editor Karen Dalziel
Ageism often lurks within the ideas and rhetoric of trans activists - Victoria Smith | Mumsnet

"there are only about 10 transgender athletes across the whole of Washington"

What difference does it make whether there is 1, 10 or 10,000. It isn't right.

Well done those girls.

Only one 'girl' can win.

Such bravery from those girls - absolutely ridiculous that this should even be an issue in women's sports, but when it's accepted that boys and men should be in women and girl's space, this is the result.

From the Seattle Times - In September, the WIAA said it is aware of “no more than approximately 10 transgender student-athletes participating across Washington each year.”
Schools are not required to report if they have a transgender student athlete, meaning the WIAA does not know the total number of transgender athletes participating statewide at any given time. Instead, the WIAA is a resource if schools need additional guidance on how to implement the policy.

😡 I would bet money that it's roughly 10 but could be far more cheating boys.

This. I'm very secretly GC and only a few very trusted people know this because I'm too scared to voice my opinions. These girls sre so admirable and give me hope.

They have the right to a level playing field and if they're not getting one, they have the need to protest it.

Well done girls, I hope your protest is heard and 'you are seen'. 👍

"In September, the WIAA said it is aware of “no more than approximately 10 transgender student-athletes participating across Washington each year.” Schools are not required to report if they have a transgender student athlete, meaning the WIAA does not know the total number of transgender athletes participating statewide at any given time."

Whoever thought that this quote was appropriate really should consider this analysis and then perhaps stop making statements such as the above.

AN ANALYSIS ON HOW JUST A FEW MALE PEOPLE CAN CAUSE HARM TO MANY FEMALE ATHLETES - THE FALSITY OF 'JUST ONE'

@hecheateddotorg
18th March 2025

To analyze performance differences between "trans"-identified male and actual female participants in girls' sport, we need look no further than girls' high school track and field.

Track and field provides the clearest data as it is an individual sport and has had the highest number of recorded male participants to date at the high school level.

There are a total of 37 male athletes on record who have participated in girls' high school track and field in the United States.

Of these 37, one athlete participated in only one race due to the cancellation of the season during the COVID 19 pandemic. Another athlete participated in a tech/private school league that did not participate in a state championship.

These two athletes will be excluded from the data.

Out of 1,276 completed events, male athletes finished as follows:
1st place: 440 (34%)
2nd place: 188 (15%)
3rd place: 123 (10%)
Other: 485 (41%)

Male athletes came in 1st 34% of the time, only 7% less often than they did than any other place outside the top 3.

They finished in the top three in 59% of their events and outside the top eight in only 19% of their events.

24 of the 35 male athletes (68%) qualified for their respective State Championship meet in a total of 136 events.

When looking at athletes competing against same-sex peers, depending on the state and division of competition, anywhere from 5 to 15% of athletes are expected to qualify.

For example in states that use regional-sectional qualification, the top 4 finishers at a regional meet (often with 2 heats of 8 runners each) qualify for the sectional meet where the top 4 finishers at the sectional then advance to State. This means that out of 32 runners at regionals, only 4 (12.5%) will advance to State.

This number also does not take into account the fact that only the best runners on a team will be entered in a regional meet and often the same runner will qualify in multiple events. A runner may also have a higher chance of qualifying in a relay as 8 runners (top 2 teams) advance to state rather than 4 in this type of qualification.

In other types of qualification or less competitive, smaller regions, it may be easier to qualify.

At the State Championship meet, there are typically 24 entries in each event. 1 of the 24 will win, meaning 4% of the 15% of athletes who have qualified for state will be a state champion, or 0.6%.

Of the 24 male athletes who qualified for state against girls, 11 of them (46%) have won a state championship title, or 31% of the total.

4 of the 35 male athletes (11%) have also achieved a top 10 national ranking.
The percentage of male athletes who have been in the top 10 of all track and field athletes in the female division in the entire nation is higher than the percentage of female athletes who have won a state title.

To find the percentage of female athletes who are in the top 10, we can take the 57 indoor and outdoor events ranked on milesplit. com multiplied by 10 (10 athletes in each) then divide by the total number of female athletes in high school track and field - 506,015 (according to nfhs. org).

This number does not take into account the fact that many athletes in the top 10 appear there in multiple events and several of the 57 events are less commonly run. (All 4 male athletes in the top 10 achieved that placement in a main event).
This means less than 0.11 percent of female athletes achieve a top 10 ranking.
"But not all states require hormone therapy!"

It is true that some states do not require males to undergo any sort of testosterone suppression or medical intervention in order to compete against girls.

We can therefore, look to the athletes who have reportedly begun "identifying" as the opposite sex and undergone "medical interventions" prior to puberty or in early middle school as it has been proposed that males who do so are in line with "average female performance."

There are 3 athletes who have reportedly "transitioned" prior to puberty. Based on their feminized appearances and high voices, we can infer this included puberty blockers.

All 3 athletes qualified for the state championship meet, 2 of the athletes were conference champions, and one athletes was not only a state champion and New England champion, but he was ranked in the national top 10.

None of these performances are in line with an "average" athlete. In fact, the national ranking out of three athletes is statistically unlikely to the point of being impossible without an athletic advantage.

"But you just know about the athletes who are good. There could be more you don't hear about because they don't win anything."

When we look at the expected percentages, we can see that about 6 out of 1,000 athletes win state and 1 out of 1,000 are in the top 10 national ranking.
In order to see the 24 males as state champions and 4 males in the top 10, there should be around 4,000 males who have competed in the girls' division in track and field. (3,965 additional athletes, none of whom can have won a state title).

There have been 37 on record.

Numerous state senators and legislators have come forward testifying to the number of "trans"-identifying males participating in their states.

When these legislators testify that there have "only been 2" in the state, or in the case of Ohio, 17 athletes in 8 years, and these numbers include all sports, and when male athletes have been banned from participating in girls' sports in about half of the states in the nation, it is not likely that there are an additional 3,963 male athletes that not only does nobody know about, but who also have not won a single state title.

In regards to the prepubescent "transitioners," there should be an additional 1,000 of them who have not won a state title or achieved a top 10 ranking. This is also highly unlikely, as we've seen multiple prepubescent "transitioners" in other sports also winning national and state championship titles.

Male participation in the female division is not just unfair, it is blatantly so.
These percentages do not reflect the cost to the female athletes behind them.

Just 2 male athletes in cross country and track and field in Maine have negatively impacted over 2,000 female athletes.

If each male athlete negatively impacted 500 female on average, that means over 18,500 female high school track and field athletes in the United States have been forced to compete against and have been negatively impacted by these boys.

This includes loss of titles, loss of medals, loss of relay spots, loss of entries in large meets, loss of qualifications for championships, loss of records, loss of privacy, and loss of confidence.

*2 male athletes in Maine negatively impacted over 1,600 girls
3 boys in Washington, over 2,000

(note:my highlighting using bigly letters. )

@Helleofabore - thank you for that.

It would be interesting to add to that the status of each "winning" trans identifying male, as compared to other males in a comparable category at a comparable age. I think that should always be noted.

Because, there are too many fools who suggest that men are just better - what can you do? This male in CAMAS is not actually better - he is just cheating.

It is also, in a way, an offense against all the boys who beat them in their own category.

Thanks @Helleofabore

Yes. It would be interesting to do that exercise..

They did the exercise for Will / Lia Thomas when he won the event in female college swimming. He went from ranked something like 400 the year before in the men’s swimming to first for the event he won in the female competition.

People have also done an analysis with Caster Semenya’s times and compared them to the male event to show the difference.

It has also been discussed many times how these male athletes can withhold their performance so they don’t show up just how much of an advantage they have at competition. Ie. When they win, they don’t want to win with too huge a gap between first (them) and second because they firstly don’t want to be accused of having a male advantage still and being made an example of. Nor do they want to be questioned about the efficacy of their testosterone suppression. Secondly, they adjust their training to aim to beat the female leaders so may have downtuned their training.

In the USAF study, it was discussed that the male personnel were not tested for % level of performance capacity, they were only aiming for the female fitness performance times etc. They didn’t have to perform harder so didn’t hence it was a flaw in the study. It would have made the study more useable if it tested maximum performance level. But also tracked their fitness routine to access whether they had not trained to maximise performance.

Then with Harper’s failed study at Loughborough then ended up only tracking Bridge’s performance because the other male athletes dropped out (sponsored by the IOC though so still went ahead and still paid for ), this was also discussed. Bridges wasn’t tested for maximum output if I remember, (or maybe that was not included in the study??) Either way, it was pointed out that Bridges fully understood the importance of that study and was a political activist himself. Therefore, the supposed reduction in performance was obviously going to be be viewed as being suspicious.

If I remember correctly, either Harper himself had mentioned it or others had pointed out in his first study (the n=8 study) that these male athletes don’t want to build muscle or to be lean high performance athletes. That will adjust their training to get or maintain their perceived best female body profile, if you know what I mean. They want curves. They don’t want bulky muscle. They want slender arms and legs without muscle definition. And that is what they will focus on in their training.

Not peak performance.

Sorry, I would go and find the accurate references, but I am about to get ready for work and am also on my phone which is harder for me to read and find the relevant info on. So the mention of the relevant studies is all just from memory. The studies themselves should be easy to find here :

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5142027-save-female-sports-evidence-thread?page=1

It’s all a nonsense to me. Sport is about working towards pushing a person’s physical capabilities to be the best they can not about reducing it to be able to fit in another category.

Yep.

we had a young male athlete come to tell us on FWR all about how he should be in the female sports category for his sport. I cannot remember his user name.

He was most insistent that he was working his hardest and that his performance really did reduce on testosterone suppression. He was really unhappy when we pointed out it was his very own decision to limit his performance in that way and how simply having that choice at all, meant he had a male advantage over female athletes.

will thomas was 462nd in the male category before coming first in the NCAA, he had two finals where he beat the competition by three seconds.
He also said that he didn't have to train as hard.
Laurel hubbard, the transgender weight lifter was roughly twice the age of the other competitors and had suffered from what would have been a career ending injury in male elite weight lifting yet still managed to get to the olympics.

The the gender athlete in this case went from 76th to 1st and was competing in the male competition 10 days before.

Far too many people seem to think that these athletes are on hormones, in the same way the many people believe that trans gender people are all on hormones or have had surgery.

It is a sad state of affairs.

Taking hormones will have an effect on performance. Doesnt mean that that individual loses all their competitive advantage.
Rhe girls division is a second teir division for boys who chose to compete at a lower level. Its for for girls competing at the best of their ability.

Fairness and integrity are a big part of sport.

Then there was Blair Hamilton’s fiasco of a study that measure male people’s fitness against female people’s. But the female people who volunteered to do the study were not high performing athletes. Making the study even less useful.

However you look at it, male people who qualify to compete in female sporting events are mediocre performance wise. It is like turtles all the way down when you start pulling the arguments apart to scrutinise them.

I remember thread and thread of people outraged that anyone would suggest these male athletes were ‘mediocre’. But when their decisions and their performance is measured against other male people, they are mediocre. Compared to the performance of the female athletes they are beating or displacing who are exceptional, they are mediocre.

Yet they are lauded.

Just compare Khelif’s invitations to events and modelling gigs. I don’t recall other female boxing Olympians being offered the same.

Good for them. My daughter trains six times a week and competes in swimming. I would be furious if she went to competition and there was a man there competing against her. All her hard work and dedication would go out the window. I would certainly support her and her friends to do similar. Luckily swimming rules state that those who have undergone male puberty must swim in the male/open category.

Very well done those girls.

And as usual the headline spun entirely towards the interests and sympathy of the male and entirely against the females involved.

Girls refuse to participate in a race in which a male has been unfairly forced upon them, making their race mixed sex, while they are required to pretend he is a girl for his own benefit and enable him to disadvantage them. That's the truth of it.

Good for them.

I wonder what adjectives John Oliver will use to describe them and their behaviour?

Of course any article on this issue in the Seattle Times is going to be frustrating. In case you missed it, here’s a story from a sportswriter who left because of their unwillingness to cover this issue from any angle other than how mean and bigoted it is to exclude the brave, sad boys from girls’ sports.

It is more difficult to be gender critical in Seattle than it is in England by quite some margin, but my sources say many progressive women there are whispering to each other that they are voting “Yes” on this.

Fingers crossed for 3 November. Measures also on the ballot in Colorado, Arizona, and Alaska, but wins in Washington and Colorado will make the biggest impact.

I'm sorry you are in the situation where you have to keep quiet about 'being GC' which is in fact 'accepting scientific fact and basic common sense', isn't it?

But there are so many examples of women who are made to suffer for being open about GC at work.
OR for not being open about being GC at work - one of the defences in tribunals is that the woman at the heart of the case didn't make it clear that she was 'gender critical' right from the start, so they couldn't possibly have discriminated against her because of her GC beliefes if they didn't know she had them, now could they?🙄

You don't have to be a big GC hero and stick your head above the parapet if you would suffer as a result - women need jobs, jobs pay bills, etc.

You're always welcome to post here to vent your frustrations, CocoPlum, or, as you did yesterday, admire girls and women who stick up for their rights.

And thanks so much Helleofabore -
Yes, we can come on here and rant and argue and act the eejit and have a laugh and opine and swap cake recipes and sometimes completely lose it and sometimes get pulled up by other posters or MNHQ ..

But if someone makes a serious statement, they back it up with links to reliable, verifiable sources. This is what makes this board so valuable.

Helle is a powerhouse of that kind of research - thank you

Thank you. At the beginning of this GC journey I had googled JKR and read the essay that started the hate against her. I said to a family member (my generation) that I had done so and "I think I agree with her ...?" They shook their head at me in a "nope, you're wrong" way so I said "oh. Ok", but then went and read more and realised I was leaning to biological reality.

I have close friends with whom I don't even discuss the subject - luckily none of us have trans/questioning children so it doesn't come up really.

Oh, and an additional outrage is that supposedly a girl had to share a hotel room with this boy, not just race against him.