Dolly Parton apparently misguided on trans issues

[QueenSophia]

I saw the AIBU thread today, and I was uncomfortable with criticism so soon after her passing. However, I'm now wondering if Dolly Parton did actually support the things articles have claimed, or if she was trying to be diplomatic and her words were quoted as supporting TRA aims. I hope the former.

No idea. Probably just steered clear.

No, the thread I saw linked articles where she was asked about them.

''I just know if I have to pee, I’m going to pee,” she continued. “I don’t care where it’s going to be.”

• this was in response to being asked about how she felt about the 2015 Carolina Bill which banned biological men from women's toilets. It sounds to me like she was maybe implying women shouldn't mind if transwomen are in the same loos? Or maybe she was just trying to give a neutral response-I hope so.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/music/music-news/dolly-parton-north-carolina-bathroom-900623/

Personally I think she may have assumed most transwomen were harmless since she was known to like drag & maybe thought they were similar, just very feminine gay men, essentially. Apparently she also had a trans man driver for years which may have given her a more benign view of the movement.

And this : 'I know [trans people] and love them all, and I do not judge,” she continued. “And I just see how broken-hearted they get over certain things and I know how real they are. I know how important [gender-affirming care] is to them. That’s who they are'

This was in a 2023 interview where they asked her about her home state Tennesse banning gender 'care' for under 18s. Her response seems poor but then maybe she didn't realise the degree to which minors were at risk. Or maybe she agreed with the ban but didn't want to hurt trans people's feelings by being too overt
about it.

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/11/dolly-parton-stands-up-for-trans-rights-in-heartfelt-interview/

Her driver for many years was a trans guy. She supported and learned from him.

She was completely unequivocal in supporting trans people, based on shared humanity. Wonderful person honestly.

Does it matter?

I am gender critical. Dolly Parton clearly was not. So what? I can still admire her tremendously for her artistic achievements, her philanthropy, her humanity and her values. I can't stand this idea that I must agree with everything another person believes if I am to like or admire them.

There are many people who hold the same beliefs I do with regard to the trans issue whom I detest. It doesn't change what I believe and it doesn't mean I like them or agree with a single other thing they think.

I think you're bending over backwards to assume that Dolly thought the same as you did - that she wasn't informed enough, or aware enough, or was being manipulated.

That's not the case. Its pretty clear that she supported both individual trans people, and much of the trans advocacy movement. And for many people, her support of Trans people only made her an even better person.

Its up to you to resolve the fact that she didn't have the same views as you on this.

She paid for her driver’s gender affirming care I’ve read.
Dolly presumably would have wanted to love and nurture a group of people who she held dear to her, as her fans she would have likely wanted to be their ally. I get it in all honesty if you’re surrounded by lovely trans women you don’t necessarily see TW as a threat. It’s when you scratch the surface and get into it a bit deeper you realise that not everyone in the trans community is just some harmless soul born in the wrong body. She could only stand for what she believed was right for her. A few years ago I’d have felt the same. I no longer do. I still want TW treated with respect and dignity, I just don’t think TW need access to women only spaces. I understand that it is hurtful for lots of TW to not be included in women’s spaces because they’d never be a threat but unfortunately for them women aren’t comfortable with them in their spaces and that’s the end of it really. 3rd space required. I used a unisex bathroom yesterday (only option) and I hated every second of it, men queuing outside and knocking loudly. It was also disgusting inside, definitely a squatting only affair! I hope places keep mens and women’s toilets as well as add a 3rd space instead of all unisex.
But yep, dolly was a huge LGBTQ ally and I imagine that for her it was because her experiences with that community had been wonderful. Not everyone is as lucky.

When you have transgender friends, you are more likely to see their identities are valid and support their rights. If you only sources of information are the constant stream of negative articles, misinformation and every trans person you read about is a criminal, you are more likely to be a bigot.

Dolly Parton supported transgender people and other minorities through her actions.

She strongly believed that people should be respected and allowed to be who they want to be. She was a huge supporter of gay marriage, and simply believed that you should allowed to live and love how you want. I think sometimes this simple humanitarian approach gets lost in the obsession over practical things like toilets. Start with the premise like hers and find a mutually agreed solution with both sides being respectful

I agree.

Dolly Parton was wonderful and admirable and much missed and sadly lamented, but she never claimed Papal Infallibility when speaking ex cathedra about social issues, so I don't really need to know what she thought about everything, I'd agree with her about some issues and disagree about others, I guess.

So what?

Dolly appears to have been largely supportive of trans rights and seemed like a wonderful woman.

Eric Joyce was vocally supportive of trans rights and downloaded extreme child sex abuse images.

You'd have to be incredibly hard of thinking to assume holding a particular position on trans rights necessarily told you anything more broadly about their character, but a lot of people operate in a world of 'goodies' and 'baddies' based on holding the 'correct views' so this is where we are.

I also agree. We don't have to model the bullying and intolerance of the trans extremists that make public life so toxic. She was a wonderful woman and I've no doubt there would be a number of things that I and others might disagree with her about.
We live in families and communities with all our differences. There's only one group claiming that people are bigots if we fail to comply with their latest pronouncement about trans demands. It would be a shame if women started copying their intimidatory tactics.
I'm not suggesting that's what the OP is doing. Just pointing out where the threats and intolerance usually come from.

I don't give a shit what people's views are on the trans issue unless they are in charge of implementing policy or making law.

JKR's best friend is a trans-identifying man, as is well known.

I think she was a nice person who was never in a position to really have to dig down into what gender ideology meant, who it harms, or any of the scientific basis for it is.

Whether her view would have stood up to questions around the realities of child transition, or men in women's sports, or rape victims services, or prisons - I tend to think not, but you never know.

She's a similar age to Margaret Atwood and I think a lot of people of that generation who see themselves as progressive have a hard time questioning the assumptions they have around gender ideology.

I wont hear a word against Dolly

She very famously did not get caught up in 'sides', she was neutral on everything and embracing of everything

She should be made a saint in my (atheist) view.

RIP

I just think Dolly was a really lovely beautiful woman, and I don't think less of her for being kind to trans people.

She was such a kind and larger than life person.

I imagine though that a lot of mumsnetters reading her quote “I know [trans people] and love them all, and I do not judge” - experienced a bit of cognitive dissonance.
Because a lot of them clearly do judge, the contempt for trans people practically seeps through the screen.

In my experience it's often women who have experienced some form of abuse from men and developed a deep fear of men

No. I’m female. I had a transgender friend. A man I had known for 13 years or so came out to me as transgender in the early noughties. Initially I was sympathetic. As he talked more and more I realised that his idea of being a woman was like no woman I’ve ever known. He’d say things like “you know those evenings on your own when you just want to put on a bit of slap”. Completely oblivious to the fact that he’d never seen me wear makeup, because I don’t.

After an eye-opening evening when he invited me over to a trans Burns Supper, I couldn’t take any of it seriously any more. He had invited three other TIMs over. His girlfriend (actual woman) organised all the food and hospitality while he and two of the TIMs dressed like women from the 50s flicked the hair in their wigs and had a typical academic male political conversation. The fourth TIM was a jolly bus driver. They made no attempt to engage him (!) so I did the female thing of chatting to the one at a loose end.

The guy I knew became increasingly obsessed and vehement. He died of natural causes several years later. Clearly a troubled soul but not a woman by any stretch.

It doesn't matter, only trans activists believe in purity spirals, others can accept that people can have different opinions and you can still like them or be friends with them. TRAs don't understand that.

You say that, but who among us can truly enjoy Jolene until we know Dolly’s position on Israel/Palestine?

Like I have said before, I forgot how fun the 9-5 film was. It’s on Netflix at the moment. The toilet scenes correspond with what I always go on about too! If the doors all rested in the open position there wouldn’t have been a plot and the dead man gag in the enclosed toilet was also true to reality.

👏

The implication that you just have to meet one of these men and the world turns to butterflies in hue of pink candyfloss with bunnies hopping round the place is utterly demented!

It is knowing men who say they are women that made me think 'hang on a minute' in the first place.