'Nullification'

[RogueFemale]

Grim times on transreddituk. There's a man asking about 'nullification'. Had to google it - it's amputating all male genitalia and making the crotch smooth like a Ken doll. Not even a fake vagina/wound. Nobody on reddit is saying this sounds like a mental health problem, seek help. Is this the physical form of non-binary?

www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1wbv2g3/nullification_surgery/

It sounds like the fringe of the fringe is really losing it, it's almost as if it's uber self-harming, it's gone from slashing the arms with razor blades to complete mutilations.

I can't help thinking that if this had been seen as a mental health issue years ago and treated as such it would not be at this extreme level now. It shows every sign of irrational behaviour escalating, it's quite sickening to think where it will end.

Agree.

Probably very hard for family or anyone to help with, as with eating disorders. The irrational belief eats the sufferer.

We've all educated ourselves plenty @TransParentlyAnnoyed

That's the problem

I educated myself from trans ally to full on TERF.

We have, and a lot of that have done it through having a person we knew trapped by it.

Again like eating disorders and cutting, but society and the media didn't conspire to enforce celebration of those. Mostly. Some of the magazines did push extreme thin.

We've already normalised the idea that, if a man is profoundly distressed by having a penis and testicles, removing them is a viable therapeutic option. Not adding a fake vulva/vagina will reduce the incidence of adverse clinical sequelae, so is an improvement, of sorts.

Lol!

I educated myself from trans ally to full on TERF.

Has anyone ever changed from TERF to trans ally?

I think they've been badly let down by the psychiatric profession, it's the discipline that is supposed to come up with ways to help people who are struggling with issues that can be put down to mental health.
The quacks are proving themselves to be quacks on this.

Not that I’ve ever seen. To do that, you’d have to reject everything you know about science and embrace the new religion.

It's a dark and disturbing male fetish (I think usually done with gay men in some submissive capacity), so not really sure what it has to do with feminism and women's rights?

That is true of the narrow issue of 'nullification' but the physical self-destructive aspect of 'gender' 'medicine' has had a dire effect on thousands of young women.

Orwell! thou shouldst be living at this hour, between the made up words and the twisted words.

WPATH included voluntary eunuchs at one point.

Sometimes one has to discuss a phenomenon before one can decide whether it affects women's rights or not.

How do you think it affects women's rights?

No, not that kind of educate, with facts! That's the wrong kind of education.

Look, a unicorn!

I don't know whether it does yet. That's why I'm following the discussion.
Many of us will be concerned about whether it affects child safeguarding too.
I hope you would agree, given the events of the last couple of decades, that it is wiser to question these phenomena upfront than to wait until untold damage has been done.

In a number of ways.

Because men who have surgery to remove their penis often believe it makes them into a woman, thus earning their eligibility for women's rights, spaces and sports.

I realise nullification surgery is a particular subgroup of surgery, but men and society often view people as 'men' and 'non men' - diluting 'women' into 'everyone that the men don't want in their category'. This in turn impacts on women's specific needs as a group and even our ability to describe ourselves.

Many women are also concerned about the safeguarding aspect of these surgeries being pushed on very young patients. I know they're illegal for under 18s in the UK but I still consider 18 to be very young, when you consider we're talking about permanent sterilisation.

If you don't consider yourself trans, you'd be a lucky woman to be allowed to be sterilised before your mid 30s 'just in case you change your mind'. But utter the T word and all caution appears to go out the window. Non trans identidying women aren't generally considered competent to make that decision for themselves.

I'm sure there are more...

There's one fairly public case on German GC Twitter. Essentially the individual ended up moving from one Twitter bubble to another and for a time at least, dating a very well-known elderly TW activist.

There's one fairly public case on German GC Twitter.

So nobody in the Anglosphere?

But again this particular dark subset of BDSM is men (usually gay) removing their own body parts and still calling themselves men. They aren't calling themselves women and aren't demanding access to women's spaces. Most of the men aren't even having relationships with women. I just don't see where women come into this.

These men are all over places like Reddit, encouraging young people of both sexes to get surgery. They don't stay in a nice little enclave - they're out there in society encouraging others.

Plenty of young women are seeking mastectomies because they are 'non binary' - seems pretty similar to the men having nullification surgery.

I explained several points why there is an intersection between women's rights and this type of surgery.

What's your point? If you can't see a link then we shouldn't be able to discuss it? I wasnt aware we needed your permission.

Then why did this particular man post for advice on a trans forum? Presumably he's going for non binary here? Many non binary men want to use the women's, as the default human is "man" and anyone else is just a "non man" which makes women and non binary the same thing in their eyes.

A lot of the abortion debate is around this idea of men wanting control of women's bodies. This sounds a lot like the other way around.

When I read about this particular eunuch maker case in the papers before it was some bizarre subset of a gay BDSM subset.

None of them have ever claimed to be non-binary or female, but we keep imagining that they are and being outraged over something that isn't happening.

Even the reddit user name of "gay sloth" is a bit of a clue. He is obviously hunting around for someone to do it, and the closest he thinks he can get to it is via the trans movement, and seemingly those surgeons won't even do it.

Darwinism. If these men are stupid enough to do it, at least they're taking themselves out of the reproduction chain. It is messed up, but so far they are not claiming to be women (or non-binary) etc.

TPA patronising and insulting posters at the same time!

Nullification sounds very extreme though. And odd. Wonder if it makes them prone to UTIs??