Parkrun comments giving me the rage

[ChapmanFarm]

If I have to read one more time 'but parkrun is just meant to be fun' or 'you are only racing against yourself and your best time' I'm going to scream.

Why does that only apply to women?

If it's just a bit of fun there is absolutely no need for trans identified men to get a time or position either. They have the option to register as another gender or to just run and not register at all.

If it's all just fun and we moaning women should shut up, why do these arguments only apply one way?

No one is saying they can't run in whatever clothing/identity they like. Just that they shouldn't be recorded as women.

But somehow this is still wrong.

I thought I'd peaked long ago but this one is giving me the absolute rage.

I run. I haven’t joined parkrun because of this policy.

Don’t assume that you are discussing this with no-runners.

If male people cannot acknowledge the material reality of their body and their personal decisions, that is not for other people to have to accommodate by acting as if those male people are not male. You might choose to do so and that is your personal choice.

Plus, don’t assume your lack of ability to correctly identify a male person’s sex category by observation and interaction is the universal experience. It is highly unlikely that 100% of female people have never correctly identified a male person’s sex category.

If a male person is also running in a female category of sport, what other female single sex provisions are they accessing? Including other sports?

It's always been gender.

What is gender? How is park run defining gender, because the drop down menu linked here states male and female which are definitely sex categories.

If some people are defining gender as sex and some are defining it as what ever makes men happy, what's the point? Is the category there just to pretend that the men are women?

Would people be equally happy to do this with age? Let any organisation redefine age to make men happy?

I see we are back to ‘only a few’ and ‘it is not the Olympics’ and ‘it cannot be policed’.

All addressed in previous posts.

But next to each runner is their gender (Male or Female, with a few blank spaces for Unknown runners), then category, e.g. "SM18-19", "VM55-59", "JM11-14" (senior male age 18-19, veteran male age 55-59, junior male age 11-14). I selected those categories from the top few in my local parkrun this week. The first woman came 14th overall, and there were only 9 women in the top 50.

You also can sort by age grade, and then the top runner this week was a woman in her 60s, who is faster for her age and sex than the young man who came in first. (And yes, she really is a woman.)

So there is rather more to it than a "single big long list".

And 'you've never met a man with a gender identity'.

But surely this is a different opinion that no women here who cares about women's rights has ever heard or thought of before?

I think you are passionate about inclusion. I don’t agree that you are passionate about protecting female sports categories.

How many female athletes are acceptable to be harmed in any way before you support protecting female sports categories at all levels?. Even grassroots.

Your ideal of inclusion is contradictory to protecting female sports categories.

Has anyone given a thought to how religion also interferes with women's rights? And imagine trying to get a compeditive time when you are swathed in linen.

Ruling on joining mixed color run

What is the definition of gender that everyone understands?

Is it clear to everyone to enters male or female on their record that they are comparing themselves to people with the same 'gender'?

Let’s cut through the emotional reasoning here.

The current way that parkrun is organised is likely to not be in compliance with the EA2010. It is completely irrelevant if some people are ok with allowing just a bit of negative illegitimate sex discrimination if the organisation is found to not comply to the law. Should other organisations who are doing good things be allowed to not follow laws because some people support them not to comply with the law?

I wouldn’t worry too much about what ‘islamweb’ has to say.

https://www.leeds.ac.uk/news-alumni/news/article/5019/namrah-shahid-changing-the-story-with-hijabi-runners

I have yet to see a definition of gender that was universally accepted, far less understood; apart from any other consideration, which of the 365+ genders are we talking about?

What would they need to do to comply with EA2010?

I’m not sure whether/how they aren’t complying tbh. They aren’t offering anything or excluding anyone on the basis of sex. It’s just a category. Albeit an inaccurate one.

I would suggest a policy stating that any category using the term female or woman or girl is for female athletes of female biological sex would be a good start. Just like any organisation who provides provisions or services that are described using the words for female people.

Or they remove any publishing of results under a sex category. It is up to them.

Then they should not publish anything that is based on that category. The only first finisher or places should be unisex.

I think that it might skew the statistics used for the percentage grade, however?

I'm involved in running for health reasons and my own satisfaction. I'm aiming to improve my percentage grade in order to give myself an idea of how well I'm doing.

I think you're guessing in your first paragraph. Re your second paragraph they studiously avoid publishing results under a sex category. Sex means something, they use gender which means nothing (or everything, which is the same.)

If they use the words female, girl and women, those are sex categories.

But I am all for this being tested in court. I doubt that parkrun will win.

I think that where that fall down (although this isn’t necessarily anything to do with EA2010) is they say “parkrun age grade values are based on established, international proxy metrics, which are currently only available for male and female categories.” Presumably these are based on sex. So male people running as women would be optimistically age graded (as the metric their grade is based on is for female runners) while female people running as men would be graded more pessimistically. Basically they’re blowing smoke up the arses of some special men. Quelle surprise.

So male people running as women would be optimistically age graded (as the metric their grade is based on is for female runners) while female people running as men would be graded more pessimistically. Basically they’re blowing smoke up the arses of some special men.

Its this.

All parkrun need to say is that they collect sex for comparison and to ensure that the events reach both men and women.

Those who dont want their sex to be published or used can click 'prefer not to say'. Its not outing anyone.

If they want to demonstrate that they reach trans people, they should ask a separate question.

And who gave you the right decide for all the other women? It might matter a lot to some of them.

I don’t see any reason why individuals couldn’t still be told where they are graded and placed in relation to their sex (knowing that sex means sex) without having to publish the full results. That would also reflect Parkrun’s claim that it isn’t competitive and people are just aiming to improve their own times and standings.

A few volunteers put on free group runs for people, amd you want to see them sued over an issue where they can't ever please everyone.

This is one more reason why nobody volunteers any more. Shortage of guide and brownie opportunities (2000 person waiting list in my area), food banks, youth clubs of all kind, environmental conservation, community transport, trusteeship, reading/tutoring programmes, animal welfare. Anything you can name there aren't enough volunteers and we all lose out.

So how about they solve it by pleasing 50% of the population rather than a tiny minority of aggressive men? Oh, and grouping by sex rather than gender would be following the law as well.