Parkrun comments giving me the rage

[ChapmanFarm]

If I have to read one more time 'but parkrun is just meant to be fun' or 'you are only racing against yourself and your best time' I'm going to scream.

Why does that only apply to women?

If it's just a bit of fun there is absolutely no need for trans identified men to get a time or position either. They have the option to register as another gender or to just run and not register at all.

If it's all just fun and we moaning women should shut up, why do these arguments only apply one way?

No one is saying they can't run in whatever clothing/identity they like. Just that they shouldn't be recorded as women.

But somehow this is still wrong.

I thought I'd peaked long ago but this one is giving me the absolute rage.

Just because it doesn’t matter to you doesn’t mean that other women shouldn’t get a fair classification category if it does matter to them.

Her feelings do matter - I'm really keen to have conversations about women's running with fellow runners. Like I said upthread, I'm really passionate about getting women into sport and actually campaigned for pregnancy deferrals for our local half marathon. What I'm frustrated about is arguing about inclusion and exclusion with people who aren't passionate about the sport, but rather at making life a bit more unpleasant for trans people, in ways that women runners are not asking for.

That's fair enough but am expressing how I feel as a keen runner.

Realistically nobody but me is going to notice or care whether I or anyone else comes 8th or 9th in any given week's parkrun.

One week the timings got messed up and I should have had a PB but it wasn't shown as such - that was annoying! But I still consider it my PB.

Lots of women want a fair category that only includes women.

Why is that not a perfectly reasonable and important thing to deliver for them?

I'm not saying I have the final word, I can see from this thread that there's certainly a diversity of opinions! I participated (slash, kicked the hornet's nest) to contribute another opinion. I'm a woman, I'm a runner and I ran parkrun today, so I think that my opinion also accounts.

It’s not that your opinion doesn’t count, it’s that your opinion (under scrutiny) prioritises men’s desires over women’s.

Which is fine, it’s your opinion, but that has to be acknowledged.

I'm not sure actual parkrun participants are clamouring for this. Run results are not chip timed, so there's a general understanding that it's never going to be perfect. Sometimes your barcode doesn't even scan! The maybe 1 or 2 trans participants just aren't making a dent in the overall veracity of the results. It's volunteer-run, and works because there's a lot of goodwill.

Some of them quite evidently are.

But even if they were not, can’t you see the ridiculousness of a man placing as ‘first female’. Does your logical brain and instinct for what’s right not strongly object to that?

I mean, if nobody cares about their times and where they place in categories, then they could just stop publishing times and categories.

But they won’t do that.

'Making a life a bit more unpleasant for trans people'

This actually tells me a lot about you. Not only do you consider fair sports for women a side issue, you actually see fair sports as something negative because a group of male people don't like it. Even though all these male people need to do is get over themselves and register in the male categorie.

Or even register as “prefer not to say”.

How can you compare yourself to other women if men are saying they’re women and vice versa?

How can you compare yourself to your age group, when in theory people 20 years younger could pretend to be in the same age group as you?

Your point is the exact reason why people are against it.

I don't consider fair sports for women a side issue. Like I said, I've campaigned for pregnancy deferrals, it's something I feel strongly about.

I am pretty sure trans men are aligned with me on this. Who you would consider 'females'. I'm expressing that a lot of these arguments feel in bad faith.

Please, just come to a local parkrun and see what it's like. It's a lovely community activity, and I think that you'd quickly see that the rankings are one of the less important bits of it.

I am struggling with working out my thoughts on this.

I do feel some of the people commenting don't really know or understand parkrun. And I do feel like we're only talking about a small number of people.

But if I was second woman (never gonna happen) and was beaten to first place by someone who was obviously a man saying they were a woman, then yes, I would be rather annoyed. But again, it's not a hill I'm going to die on. I'm far more concerned about professional sport where it is actually people's livings and careers, than what is just a hobby for most.

So, mine doesn't. I think competitive sports, like the Olympics, are a lot more tricky to untangle. But at parkrun? It's not a problem.

If I really strongly had a problem with being second female finisher after a trans woman, there would be noone stopping me from saying I was first female. I'm sure parkrun wouldn't bar you for that! But for my money, I'd say I was second.n

I wonder how Parkrun’s policy fits with things like this (from 2018). Receiving funding to boost participation from women. How were they measuring success?

https://www.sportengland.org/news/sport-england-partner-with-parkrun-for-three-years-with-3-million-investment

There have been age and sex categories since parkrun started and nobody ever checks as far as I know. So it's not really any different. It's an amateur event, people can lie if they want to, we have to take it on trust that most do not.

I don't think there is much appetite for demanding people's birth certificates.

'Making life a bit more unpleasant for trans people'....

Men, let's be honest about this. You're talking about a particular group of people with trans identities, where the single defining characteristic is that they are all men.

And you feel that it is pleasant for these men to be able to role play being biological women in all situations.

And this is extended to a moral duty to all women to surrender their own equality of opportunity, ambition and fairness, and to do this without protest or seeking an alternative, in order to provide a group of men with an emotional experience they would like?

Is this a biological duty for women, to selflessly give so that men can be happy?

It may not be a hill you’d die on but what’s the right and fair outcome?

A man taking first female or a woman taking first female?

Surely that’s not a difficult question to answer?

Those women can set up their own running event then.

Parkrun is a free event run by volunteers, expecting them to enforce sex checks is ridiculous. If you choose to do parkrun then you accept that the entire event and categories are based on good will.

If you don’t agree with that then create “True and honest women run” with whatever entry conditions you like.

Well why don’t you run in the men’s category and support your friend?

No one’s asking for ‘sex checks’ just that a woman’s category is for women, not women and some men who fancy it.

Yup. Beaten by a cheater and you’d be ok with that? Awesome. What about the woman coming third who should have got second? You’re like that TRA saying he’d be happy if his daughter was beaten by a TIM or lost a scholarship cos “inclusivity” right? Notice it’s not his daughter saying that….

'kicking the hornet's nest' - well yes. Coming to a women's rights forum to suggest that good women prioritise the needs of men above themselves, and don't complain or try to find ways to meet their own needs?

It's a bit like going onto the vegan forum and announcing that being vegan is weird and nice people don't do it.

No?