NHS update on recording patient sex and gender identity

[Whatchamacallitt]

For a long time sex has been erased and replaced with gender identity. Trans-identified people actually lose out the most with this. There have been cases of trans-identified women having heart attacks, pregnancy emergencies, and kidney failure missed due to clinicians relying on normal male test ranges or presumed male sex. There have been issues for trans-identified men too but unsurprisingly it is the women who have suffered the most due to these policies.

Fortunately the NHS Core Information Standard has been updated to make 'sex at birth' a mandatory data item, with the option to record gender identity separately for patients who feel they have one.

(I don't personally believe in gender identity but recognise it is a genuinely held belief for many trans-identified people and also that it could be helpful information in the context of an altered body due to medicalisation.)

Why do men want to pretend that they dont have a penis?

To be protected under the PC of GR, a man just has to intend to transition, where transition has to be nothing more than claiming their gender is female.

TRA want us to prioritise the imaged vulnerable trans person - 30 years trans, full surgery, completely passing, always followed by a bad lad who would beat them up if they knew 'she' was a 'he'. Not even safe from hospital receptionists.

Yet any man is a women if he says so.

Let's say that there's a transwoman who passes. I know that whether people pass is debatable, but the receptionist isn't terribly observant and also embraces sensitivity to transgender individuals.

Receptionist:

"Excuse me Dr, but a man in the waiting room is feeling really sick and dizzy."

Dr: <thinks a man is feeling sick and dizzy... dehydration from sickness>

"Thank you, I only have two more patients before them, then I'll see them."

Vs:

"Excuse me Dr, the woman in the waiting room is feeling really sick and dizzy"

Dr: <Hmm....women having heart attacks present with nausea and dizziness>

"Thanks, she's got two patients in front of her, but could you ask the nurse to call her through and do a full set of obs, then call me if they're abnormal or she's worried."

There are lots of things that people don’t need to know but where it also doesn’t matter if they do know…

more pertinent is the question - what is the motive behind for example a man wanting to hide the fact that they are a man?

As I have posted before there are only two reasons:

• for affirmation in their pretence at being a woman
• for nefarious purposes such as access to women’s areas

neither of those are good enough reasons for others to be required to be complicit in the deceit… the second is a good reason to not support the pretence.

so you are asking the wrong question - in fact your question is deliberately phrased to pretend that there is a valid reason to not know whereas as evidenced above there are good reasons to know for example when a man tries to gain access to the ladies loos etc.

for 99.9% of situations it is obvious whether someone is male or female (their true sex) so pretending to be otherwise doesn’t fool folks…

someone’s sex is almost always obvious from visual clues even when dressed! It is no different to colour of eyes or height metrics they are facts about a person which are easily observed, don’t change and which even the average toddler can tell…

The idea that 'trans status' is private comes from GRA. Only some people need to know that a person has a GRC.

If trans is such a private matter, why would non passing trans people present as the opposite sex in public? Isn't obvious eddie izzard and India Willoughby are men, even if it wasn't the only thing they talk about, we can all see they are both men.

I suppose when processing samples the lab. tech. doesn't actually need to know the patient's name; just sex, age, other relevant info. in order to carry out the tests, measurements. Arguably that should be the case for all patients. As pp have said it's not just trans status that is information that patients might wish to avoid the risk of becoming gossip. The NHS no. alone should give access to the needed facts with the 'name' field redacted.

This is assuming a more or less paperless, working system accompanying samples.

Exactly. I strongly oppose any attempt to disguise sex for anyone.

“Where are the toilets” when booking in - receptionist sees obvious man but can only see “gender” field, doesn’t know whether to direct him to the men’s one way or the ladies the other. She knows the hospital policy is belatedly in line with the law as it should be and that men can’t use ladies’ toilets as that’s harassment of women and girls, but what is she supposed to do?

If sex is visible on the record for everyone, even though he’s wearing a skirt and has a wig on, he can be directed to the most appropriate unisex facility or whatever the policy is.

Yes, that’s a good example of when it isn’t necessary for name to be linked to sex for anyone.

Motte and bailey. (My phone always tries to capitalise Bailey as if they are a pair of comedy maverick detectives).

Just come across this, it's a bit of a derail, but it's strange the places where sex matters

Stained glass rule change may impact women's jobs - BBC News share.google/vq9KfTI9o48GdzHsp

Because its relevent to their care..

Many trans people describe wanting privacy for the same reasons anyone else might want privacy about personal medical information: to avoid stigma, discrimination, harassment, or simply because they don't think everyone is entitled to know intimate details about them - like whether they have a "real vagina".

Reducing the motivations of an entire group to either "affirmation of a pretence" or "nefarious purposes" seems to rely on a very negative stereotype about trans people rather than evidence about why individuals may choose not to disclose their birth sex.

Even if you believe sex is immutable or often apparent, it doesn't follow that healthcare providers should routinely record or disclose a person's birth sex where it isn't relevant to the care being provided. We recognise this principle throughout data protection law: personal information should be collected and processed only where there is a legitimate and proportionate reason for doing so.

Shades of “pre-pregnant” in the US.

Yes if he were born in the uk it would have been much easier to correct it to his birth sex. then again we all say that he'd likely have been marked as male initially in the first place if he were born here. He does to my knowledge now have an updated male passport now at least -ive no clue what he needed to apply for thatwithout a corrected birth certificate, a doctors note confirming his birth sex maybe im assuming(?)- but its a shame that there's more guidance for document 'gender transitions ' which shouldnt be allowed imo, than cases like these. I suppose men wanting to be women is more popular though..

It's a good thing that the NHS disagree with you and that men trying to keep their sex secret in order to be placed on women's wards or get smear tests will no longer happen. If you make certain choices in life you have to accept that society isn't always going to pretzel itself to accommodate all your wishes.

Sad times and all that but all part of living in a society where other people have rights and needs as well as you.

It's a very good lesson for those caught up in endless narcissism and self involvement to be forced to consider whether your demands negatively impact on others. 😊

Well said. These FITs (feminist identifying transphobes) only deal in false information. Helen Joyce being one of them. Australia threw her opinion piece out in court in 2024.

whether you are male or female is a matter of fact / of birth / of biology.
It is obvious through appearance
It is as much a part of someone's biological makeup as the colour of their eyes

It is not personal medical information.
It is not an intimate detail

Hope that helps clarify your confusion.

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There is no such thing as a 'real vagina' as that implies that there is such a thing as a constructed or other vagina...

there is just a vagina. - surgical butchery ending with holes in someone's body - does not make a vagina.

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If someone is trying to pretend that a man is a woman (when we know that is not possible), then that is a deceit, it is not factually correct, so we have to ask why they are doing that - and there are only two apparent reasons...

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I don't need to believe that sex is immutable - it just is immutable. Much like I don't have to believe that the earth is round, but that doesn't stop it being a sphere and make it flat!

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an individual doesn't get to decide when it is relevant for a HCP to need to know that they are e.g. male and not female - it is a necessary piece of medical knowledge which can affect virtually every medical decision. The NHS is not yours to dictate how it acts - it acts in a manner which is proven to be best for the patient. Even something as innocuous as dealing with a minor injury might need that knowledge to make decisions on pain relief and other treatment...

As for a receptionist knowing - so what, their job means that they need to know all sorts of information about patients - that doesn't mean that they will use that knowledge to the detriment of the patient - so the concept that up and down the country GP practices are refusing access to medical care because a receptionist knows the sex of the patient is quite frankly absurd.

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We are part of a society that has a structure which makes it work. The sex of an individual is a core part of that - we have everything from employment law to toilets, education decisions to medical decisions, even marriage decisions (e.g. Church of England v. registry office) all which come down to knowing the sex of an individual - it is so core a part of who they are that it usually has more relevance than the person's name. Sorry if you don't like it - but one small group's dislikes doesn't set the pattern for our society.

The most recent one was Mayo Fartstarter. She was fuming for days in Twitter.

Opinion piece with no basis in reality or fact.
TLDR

I have no science training, no degree in biology, no scientific papers written by me, no doctorate etc...

yet from a very young age I have been able to identify boys and girls
and I still know that there are only two immutable sexes...

so I am not sure what your point is - where is the false information in stating the obvious / the biologically proven / the scientifically accurate / etc. fact that you are born male or female and can't change.

you don't exactly do yourself any favours...

if it is too long, so that you didn't read it - how do you know that it is an opinion piece with no basis in reality or fact?!

Are you one of those people who comes in - doesn't bother with reading the conversation - throws in your inaccurate and generally rude comments somehow in the belief that everyone else will bow to your wonderous superiority?!

good luck with that here where people are tough, resilient, diligent, read the discussion, do their homework, and above all drive the argument from a rock solid scientific basis...

at least your comment adds humour for being so off target 😁

That is your opinion however it is not fact. No matter how much you try to dress it up as such. Hence why two FIT (feminist identifying transphobe) opinion pieces were thrown out of court for not being skilled evidence.
Hope this helps.

Well, quite.

I’m sorry but this forums high school level biology and opinions are far from scientifically proven information. If I want correct information I’ll speak with a scientist, biologist etc I hope that helps.
I am sorry that my posts frustrate you.