"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, “Rose”, who:

• identifies as female
• has not undergone any physical or hormonal transition and has full male genitalia
• has cited inclusivity policies
• is backed by the trust’s HR department
• has been granted access to a single-sex changing room for women.

The NHS trust’s HR department dismissed the nurses’ concerns, stating they should “broaden their mindset” and “be educated”. More details can be found at Sex Matters

The hearing is due to start on October 20th and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online email: [email protected] [[email protected]] requesting remote access to the case of 2501192/2024 Hutchinson and others Vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust, starting 20th October. Also include your full name and your role in the hearing (eg member of the public or observer). Note, it is likely you will need the same full name and email address to log into the hearing, and the name will be visible to other observers.

The hearing will be live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets. An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets. Tribunal Tweets have more background to this case on their substack, including links to their coverage of the earlier hearings.

In earlier hearings reported at http://archive.today/nh5v9, the claimants were supported by the Christian Legal Centre and represented by Pavel Stroilov (solicitor) and Bruno Quentaville (barrister). The respondents were represented by Simon Cheetham KC. We do not know yet if the same representation will be in place for the October hearing

Background information from Christian Concern who are supporting the nurses via the CLC.

I must say, SC's manner does remind me of Ben Cooper, so it's not surprising to me that they are at the same chambers. I think he did his best with the material he got, and Karen has held her own very well too. I couldn't call which way the judges would go. I suspect Rose's own cross-examination will be key to credibility of everyone's evidence.

As a side note, I did enjoy SC's addition to the judge's comment on the horror of live video feeds. IIRC it was "It can get a LOT worse". Sounds like he has some stories there!

It's refreshing to hear counsel argue on the genderist side in a way that looks like someone doing a professional job of work.

There always seems to be this assumption that if you allow a man to use the ladies, this won’t affect cordial relations outside of the changing rooms. Of course if you are creeped out by a man staring at your breasts in the changing rooms this will affect your ability to get along with him on the wards!

From TT

We are waiting to be re-admitted to the CVP (remote access to the hearing room).

And denying that he's doing it and the nasty women are either hallucinating or ganging up on him. And they're making a fuss and not giving the poor ickle NHS Trust chance to sort things out. So really, they don't deserve anything even if the ickle NHS Trust STILL hasn't sorted things out?

I suppose the problem for barristers is that they have to follow a brief even if it sounds stupid.

Witness is very credible. Barrister is very methodical and good approach.

This is how it should be. No matter the material, barristers, solicitors, investigators get more from witnesses when being profressional, courteous and helpful in their own questioning and approach.

I didn't get access to the Peggie trial but from comments on here JR was just plain old bad at her job. And the judge said her failure to plead the bananarama defence was borderline negligent. So he knows she was bad at her job too.

Is SC really referring to "Rose" as him/he?!?!

From TT

We have rejoined, J in a middle of question to KD.
J- did you ever work any other shifts
KD - Monday to Friday, then I went on to shorter shifts, and some times 4 days
J - when did you make that change
KD - 2021, after Covid I think it was

From TT

J - during Covid, did you continue to use the CR
KD - we were seconded to different wards, we used the CRs of the wards that we were working on, after Covid settled down we were using our own CR, we were a 'clean' ward, you weren't allowed to leave the ward
J - do you remember

From TT

when you started using the CR again
KD - 2022, but I'm not sure
J - we ask because we're trying to get an understanding that from 2019 everyone using the CR, how did the issue start in 2023.
KD - yes
J - how big is the CR in relation to thise room

So RH was told the names of the nurses who complained about him and wandered round the hospital on spurious errands to either check them out or creep them out?

Unpleasant behaviour.

So SC has finished. The thrust of his questioning was to cast anything this witness had.personally witnessed as paranoia and what she hadn't as gossip.

Just marking place!

From TT

KD - about the same size
Discussing configuration of the room with Judge
J - are their any seats
KD - there are benches (gets up to show Judge on document)
J - that's the layout, what happened in Sept, you come in through the doors, looking at the plan, a lot of lockers

J - 118 lockers,
KD - yes, a lot of lockers
J - names on them
KD - some have names, some have numbers, some have photos of family members
J - so when you came in, you saw RH at RH's locker, you're saying just 2 of you in the room, did you have a sense of that

From TT

KD - I was looking for my keys, I was aware that I might bump into someone, by the time I got to my locker, I'd looked in the offshoot and there was nobody in them.
J - the offshoot to the left
KD - yes
J - so Rose was at the end, and you're not aware of anyone else there

From TT

KD - no
J - anyone in the toilets
KD - all the doors were open as I walked by so no one in any of those either
J - so you weren't aware of Rose
KD - I was looking in my keys for my bag, looking down
J - you see Rose at the end of the room, aware there's another person

From TT

KD - yes
J - everyone says that Rose was very obviously male,
KD - yes
J - as you were walking in did you clock that there appeared to be a man
KD - yes
J - did that strike you as unusual
KD - it did, I thought at first I was in the wrong CR

From TT

J - you didn't say anything
KD - I thought I must be wrong, I was looking in my bag, and then I heard the male voice and I realised it was definitely a man there,
J - you say that Rose is in boxers, when did you realise
KD - about 2 meters away when I realised in boxer shorts

From TT

J - would you ordinarily address someone when you come in
KD - if I knew them
J - even if you didn't know them
KD - I might give them a little smile
J - anything like that
KD - no, I was tired I just wanted to get home
J - it came to your attention that Rose had stopped taking

From TT

hormone treatments, trying to get partner pregnant, can we get a better understanding of how you heard this mentioned, was it theatre staff
KD - when working on day surgery, you see a lot of different people everyday, we went to recovery to get our patients, it's a handover

From TT

from theatre staff, when I was doing a handover, someone came over and told me
J - you say 'we'
KD - I think I had a student with me
J - came to your attention
KD - I'd heard it from some of the girls and they told me the same thing
J - by one indiv or tw

KD - it was 2 staff from theatre came over and told me
J - people from theatre, some of the girls on the ward said the same thing,
KD - yes
J - let me check in NF has any re-exam

From TT

NF - yes, but I will be quick and finish this evening
NF - asked about Rose's voice coming from behind you, I'm pointing to where your name is on the plan, where was Rose when you heard the voice,
KD - by his locker
NF - there were 2 more times Rose spoke

From TT

KD - yes
NF - where were you stood
KD - indicates on plan second time where both were stood and then were sitting on the bench.
NF - thank you, you were asked qs about the resolution procedure, correspondence you rec'd, before these proceedings had you made a formal complaint

Tomorrow is Mrs Hutchinson, her husband, and possibly one other

KD was pretty consistent in using he/him for RH.