A little piece of insight

[Tandora]

Into a topic so woefully misunderstood.

It really is. They aren’t interested in winning people over.

I am absolutely clear that a man or a trans woman in a single sex space for women will cause me immense distress.

My distress (unspeakable?) is as nothing to the distress of the trans woman, is it @Tandora ?

How do you propose to square that circle?

@Tandora still waiting patiently for a reply to this question please

I am so sorry. 💐

In no other walk of life do we accept how people describe themselves when it's blatantly, demonstrably and, quantifiably not true.

"I am the Queen of England"- because I know myself to be.
"I am a pilot"- because I recognise myself to be.
"I am invertebrate"- because I understand myself to be.

Why on earth do we have to give any credence to a male saying "I am female"?

And how does it work with the likes of Pips Bunce and Eddie Izzard, who say they are women on the days they like to wear fishnets and high heels? Why do they have this knowledge on some days but not others?

Winning people over isn't the game, I'm not sure what the game is.

It's irrelevant; the law protects women and single sex spaces for exactly these demonstrated reasons of sexism and misogyny. It just goes on showing we're no where near a time in history where women no longer need these protections for equality and access. It doesn't matter who does or doesn't agree: it's the law.

So we really at the point of person denying that female people are distressed by a male person’s presence in a space that a female person might expect to be female only (using the word to mean a person with a body formed around the production of large gametes regardless of whether those gametes are currently being produced or not).

So female people - distress rejected

Male people with transgender identity - distress centred

Quite the insight.

To you "woman" is a word reserved for describing a group of people who have certain bodily characteristics similar to yours. you refuse absolutely to move on that absolute mandate for how we must use the word "woman" . You consider that use of words to constitute objective Truth. I hear you,

Can you accept , however, the reality of trans experience as described in the OP. That's all I'm am asking you to do.

It’s definitely been an eye opening thread for me.

Keep going OP, you're doing a wonderful job of representing The Right Side of History.

Even if I did accept that I still think women matter. Why don't you?

Well that totally stacks up doesn't it.

TRA 'religion adjacent' ideology needs its sacrificial victims and these are women. So they don't want to hear about women's distress, because the distress of sacrificial victims is immaterial/boring/distracting from the main event

indeed it is.

I accept that trans women believe that they are women.

I am not sure on what that actually means, but I’m sure they think they are women (apart from those who just appropriate being trans for nefarious purposes. I’m not sure how I’m supposed to differentiate that but I’m sure you’ll give me your view on how I’m supposed to do that).

Where it falls for me is in the legalities. They can think whatever they like. But they can’t impose that on anyone else in a situation where there is currently a single sex exemption or expectation. And more than that being my opinion, or what I think, that is the law.

And you’ve dodged those sort of questions so I’m not sure what you wanted from this thread.

I think women matter. I am one. I matter.
I don't accept women are harmed or compromised in anyway by accepting the reality of trans experience.

The reality of trans experience means what exactly in practical terms?

November Oscar. A woman is an adult human female. The law says so. Stop trying to bully and coerce women into saying men can be women. The law says a woman is an adult human female. Stop bullying women.

Do you accept the reality of my experience?

I answered you. Can you answer me please.

From this thread I wanted to offer some insight into trans experience as described in the OP which challenges some of the classic misperceptions like "oh it's just like when so and so thinks he's a dinosaur", and "kids can't possibly know they are trans".

The aim was not to have another pointless row about toilets and sports.

You would accept those rights were compromised if you were a nun, a Jewish or islamic woman, an elderly woman, if you were a survivor a CSA or DV.

I fear your position is as informed as Emma Watson’s, who is too ignorant to understand that she is ignorant because she lives beyond a veil of privilege.

ETA, the irony of the complete lack of insight and the title of the thread can’t be lost on anyone, can it?

The reality is that transwomen aren't women. Sorry, Tan, but that's how language works. Words mean things and to mean one thing, they have to not mean other things. Words need to be exclusive or they don't mean anything. Peanut maple foxtrot poplin.

There's nothing hateful or reductive or bad about having a word for adult females that includes all adult females and excludes males. It's how language works. If a man can be a woman, there's no such thing as a woman and the word is meaningless.

And even if you succeeded in forcing everyone to accept that TWAW, the material reality would remain that they are not. They're also not lampshades or carburettors. It's just a lie. If a man wants to pretend he's a woman that's up to him. If he wants me to pretend he's a woman, that's up to me.

Of course you don’t. You’ve been told many times it does harm women. You just think males are more important and what they want is more important than women’s need and wishes. That’s fine. Just own it. I don’t know why you are so invested in bullying women into allowing men into female single sex spaces and I don’t really care. Women are saying no. Accept it.

Yes!

(And I realised how garbled that post became as I was walking in the rain while typing on my phone. But I am glad people got the point. 😁)

Well, you have definitely given readers a huge insight into your Righteous Ideology, so well done!

And yet you did. Again. Why cannot you accept women do not want men in female single sex spaces? And they’re allowed to have single sex spaces. You may not like that. But it’s the law. Maybe you should do what the CEO of ERC said and reframe your trauma on this and learn to manage your disappointment.