A little piece of insight

[Tandora]

Into a topic so woefully misunderstood.

That's interesting that you have used the word "Righteous". Do you think it sounds righteous? Why is that do you think?

It’s not a pointless row (from me at least no idea about anyone else) about toilets.

It causes me actual desperate distress to be in a room with a closed door and have a man outside that door. I go into a panic attack and that leads to spiralling, self harm, nightmares, suicide attempts.

You seem unwilling to recognise that women like me need single sex spaces and seem to think that because we don’t want men in them that means we deny the existence of trans people. I don’t. I know that they exist. I’ve asked how how you propose to square the circle of competing rights.

because for all the thought experiments in the world that’s what it comes down to.

am I allowed to have a single sex space. Can I refuse a male doctor who presents as female and has decided they are a biological
woman.

LOL

Sad times.

Asking again.

Righteous in the sense of 'self', I think.

Question: if we did accept that all trans people sincerely know and believe themselves to be the opposite sex, but also know the law is based on biological sex - What's the 'so what'?

Accept feelings/knowings yes, agree this means they use the opposite single sex spaces no, so = campaign for third spaces? Is that what you're saying?

I think it just might be tongue in cheek.

err…. That was sarcasm. You do know that right 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

It's not just me being a silly, obstinate outlier for using the word "woman" in that way. It has a specific legal meaning in the UK. And in the way it's understood in one of the planet's major languages.

The reality of the trans experience described in the OP doesn't align with the reality of the universe where words and categories have to be clear for anything to be practical.

Nearly 40 fucking pages and we're still having to explain why we don't care if some men are sad if we say No.

I in is. Maybe we need other ways of communication. Like interpretive dance. Or pictures.

I understand that would involve the inclusion of an extra sentence - maybe seven? - more words. No doubt this is a terrible and unspeakable burden for you

Are we allowed to tell posters who mock traumatised women to fuck off or is that against the posting rules?

“I don't accept women are harmed or compromised in anyway by accepting the reality of trans experience.”

Just in case anyone needed confirmation.

The rejection that any female person can be distressed by a male person’s presence in a space where that female person expected no male people to access at all.

Any female person expressing such distress is to have their experience denied. Rejected. Dismissed.

Because a person who has declared that one group of people’s ’understanding’ is to be believed to the reality, and a person in that group that expresses distress is to be immediately centred, believed fully and have that distress relieved.

If you had never before understood how misogynistic gender identity belief and prioritisation is, hopefully this thread has given you the ‘insight.’

Nope. Tried that. Got deleted in the past.

I think if you do Foxtrot Oscar it’s acceptable. Or. FOTTFSOFATFOSM.

What’s a terrible and unspeakable burden for me is the trauma caused by my rape.

@Tandora do you in any way acknowledge this?

But what inspired the thought?

And asking again. Again.

Tandora · Today 16:49
I think women matter. I am one. I matter.
I don't accept women are harmed or compromised in anyway by accepting the reality of trans experience.

Taztoy · Today 16:49
The reality of trans experience means what exactly in practical terms?

@Tandora It is not about women being harmed by "accepting the reality of trans experience". It is about women being harmed by finding male bodies in female-only spaces.
You seem to have a huge mental block when it comes to thinking-through the consequences of what you are saying, what it would mean in practical terms.

I feel I am completely wasting my time with you. The thread is nearly full anyway.

Yes, I think quite a lot of “insight” indeed.

The fact that you are coming across as a bit of a self righteous blowhard bully. Of course that might not be your intention, and I do apologise if I’ve read your posts wrong but I’ve seen you mock women speaking of their trauma, bully women and belittle other posters. I think that’s what the thought was.

Tandora has clarified it’s not that the distress of TIMs is more important than the distress of female people, it’s that our distress is not real. It really is very insightful to know that this is what TRA actually think.

Righteous: a belief in being noble and and virtuous, a morally excellent character by the standards of faith, conformity to established sanctioned codes of a particular system; often associated with sanctimoniousness and a belief in being better and above the 'unrighteous', the sinning and wrong.

I would say it's been fairly and accurately used throughout the thread.

Yeah. Think the answer might be to stop explaining, tbh. Can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into etc etc etc (interestingly, this is one of the latest phrases I've noticed TRAs appropriating).

With my kids, I used to explain once or twice and then move to 'yes, I understand you don't like it but this is just how it goes so you're going to need to get on with it'.

And then eventually 'you could have sorted <thing you're bitching about - in this context, probably third spaces everywhere> in the time you've spent whining about it to me, and it still needs doing is there perhaps a lesson here?'

After that I used to pretend I'd turned the whine filters in my ears on (early version of the Interruptaron poster).

I agree with Op. So how is ‘Helping a hurting child’ allowing adult men into women’s space?

seen you mock women speaking of their trauma, bully women and belittle other posters.

That is an outrageous statement . Anyone who reads the thread can see that what ive given is exceptionally mild, compared to what has been directed at me (which has been utterly disgraceful as usual). I made one mildly sarcastic comment in a conversation about how to use language to request a female doctor and not risk receiving a trans woman.