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Original poster

NHS Policy Audit - working party - thread #2

1000 replies

KnottyAuty · 25/04/2025 15:32

This is a thread about “keeping the receipts” on NHS Policies prior to the Supreme Court ruling on 16th April 2025.

Our working theory is that there were no single sex spaces for NHS Staff or Patients in the entire country before that date, having all been removed by stealth. We are aiming to prove this by auditing websites and policies for all the UK trusts and using the results to raise public awareness. As well as recording what has happened historically, the information will form a baseline so we can check which Trusts comply or defy the judgement in due course.

We are working around the country region by region. If you fancy getting involved in a bit of grassroots feminism then please do join in to help!? Each trust takes about an hour to research and you can upload online without giving any personal details away. Comment below and we can give you the link to an online survey - it changes for each region.

Thanks soooo much to all the vipers who have helped so far and @ Twoloons for doing a great job with the thread wrangling!

Here are the press articles we’ve managed to generate so far:

Scotland:
25th March: The Telegraph
https://archive.is/dTUhY
26th March: Scottish Daily Express
https://archive.is/kaLCB
26th March: The Telegraph
https://archive.is/iSD9m

London:
21st April: The Telegraph
https://archive.is/awGuz
23rd April: The Telegraph (in conjunction with another thread by NHS mumsnetters)
https://archive.is/1DO8d

Original thread #1 here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5291237-nhs-policy-audit-working-party?page=1

NHS Policy Audit - working party | Mumsnet

Following on from Thread #23 of the Peggie v NHS Employment Tribunal. Anyone who wants to help with survey/audit of paperwork against the Equality Act...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5291237-nhs-policy-audit-working-party?page=1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
53
Cantunseeit · 30/04/2025 15:12

This hasn't aged well (my bold):
"Trans and non-binary people must not be excluded from services, including
single-sex wards or bays, on the grounds of their protected characteristic of
gender reassignment. There may be an exception to this if it can be
objectively justified as a means of achieving a legitimate aim (under schedule
3 of the Equality Act 2010). This is, however, very unlikely to be justified or
applicable in most cases."

Faffertea · 30/04/2025 15:13

I’ve started Shrewsbury and Telford- number 35.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 30/04/2025 15:23

Faffertea · 30/04/2025 15:13

I’ve started Shrewsbury and Telford- number 35.

Thank you!

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 30/04/2025 15:25

Cantunseeit · 30/04/2025 15:12

This hasn't aged well (my bold):
"Trans and non-binary people must not be excluded from services, including
single-sex wards or bays, on the grounds of their protected characteristic of
gender reassignment. There may be an exception to this if it can be
objectively justified as a means of achieving a legitimate aim (under schedule
3 of the Equality Act 2010). This is, however, very unlikely to be justified or
applicable in most cases."

It is so galling that they keep misusing the single-sex exception wording for their own purposes! It was wrong before the SC and its wrong now.

Also, I do wonder what they think would make something justified or applicable…

umbel · 30/04/2025 15:33

What's left @TwoLoonsAndASprout ? Please allocate me one - I can take a look tomorrow. Thanks!

Cantunseeit · 30/04/2025 16:08

I've done and submitted leicestershire partnership nhs trust

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 30/04/2025 16:24

umbel · 30/04/2025 15:33

What's left @TwoLoonsAndASprout ? Please allocate me one - I can take a look tomorrow. Thanks!

Do you want to have a look at 33 - Nottingham Uni?

Thank you!

Cantunseeit · 30/04/2025 16:50

I think that just leaves 26 Lincolnshire Community Health Services? If I’ve read everyone’s posts properly. Happy to take a look at that if so

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 30/04/2025 17:26

Cantunseeit · 30/04/2025 16:50

I think that just leaves 26 Lincolnshire Community Health Services? If I’ve read everyone’s posts properly. Happy to take a look at that if so

That would be great if you are up for it! Thank you!

Cantunseeit · 30/04/2025 17:28

Great, just having a Quick Look - v sparse. Knotty’s note said “re-read policies” do you have access to the back end, can you see if anything is uploaded already? I’m struggling to find anything so far but I will keep going!

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 30/04/2025 17:58

Cantunseeit · 30/04/2025 17:28

Great, just having a Quick Look - v sparse. Knotty’s note said “re-read policies” do you have access to the back end, can you see if anything is uploaded already? I’m struggling to find anything so far but I will keep going!

I do, but not this second. @KnottyAuty, are you at the coal face? Can you help @Cantunseeit?

If not I will check when I can and will get back to you…

Original poster
KnottyAuty · 30/04/2025 17:58

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 30/04/2025 12:42

@FarriersGirl:

Interestingly it is also the only trust I have looked at that has an outstanding rating from the CQC. Maybe, just maybe, focusing on delivering decent patient care without the endless distractions of gender woo pays dividends?

That is an interesting correlation. I wonder if we can actually run some stats on that…

Interesting!
Can you imagine?!

In fact Walsall - the rabid ones noted above: CQC "Requires improvement"
I think you are on to something?!
Could we quickly get the CQC ratings gathered up?

OP posts:
Original poster
KnottyAuty · 30/04/2025 17:59

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 30/04/2025 15:25

It is so galling that they keep misusing the single-sex exception wording for their own purposes! It was wrong before the SC and its wrong now.

Also, I do wonder what they think would make something justified or applicable…

Show quote history

Hell freezing over?

OP posts:
Original poster
KnottyAuty · 30/04/2025 18:01

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 30/04/2025 17:58

I do, but not this second. @KnottyAuty, are you at the coal face? Can you help @Cantunseeit?

If not I will check when I can and will get back to you…

Show quote history

Will DM you now @Cantunseeit

OP posts:
TwoLoonsAndASprout · 30/04/2025 18:02

KnottyAuty · 30/04/2025 17:58

Interesting!
Can you imagine?!

In fact Walsall - the rabid ones noted above: CQC "Requires improvement"
I think you are on to something?!
Could we quickly get the CQC ratings gathered up?

Show quote history

I mean, correlation does not equal causation, but it sure as heck often points out a sensible area to shine a torch.

Original poster
KnottyAuty · 30/04/2025 18:19

GCEpileptic · 30/04/2025 14:43

im still Pom poming for you all - can that be a verb? Well it is nowSmile also have some news which may cheer up people who are understandably finding it hard…

went to my GP Tuesday and their was an a4 printed sign stuck up in reception pointing different arrows for “male toilets/female toilets”. I was at GP on 5th April but sign wasn’t - so this is a “see-able”(?) change…SmileSmileSmile

i know Supreme Court ruling and the new “guidance” for NHS has probably prompted it but that ruling and guidance was issued exactly because women fought and fought, just like these brilliant threeads. So it’s so worth it, it’s amazing work.

i know @KnottyAutymy NHS news on last thread cheered you, i never mention friends/family in nhs as I think I make myself identifiable on these threads but there are a lot more of GC women (and men) speaking up at work. there is still a lot of fear eg I know some would like to go to the LWS GMC meetings but worried about backlash of their photos on social media etc esp new starters in nhs. But things are definitely changing,

I know that bit is “gossip” (not right word, I mean third hand info) but personal experience now- I spend a lot of time at/in hospitals (5 inc 2 different trusts due to specialists) and many more staff seem aware of it eg obvious eye rolling when asking obligatory gender questions on admission etc. 80 per cent atm usually include an A and E visit Hmmand when I can I raise the wonderful Sandy Peggy case, some are aware some not but quickly become GC when they are made aware! anecdata but the most common aspect in those already aware - is that her union didn’t back her, that’s a real stinger for them,. Lack of an expectation of back up from higher up in nhs seems baked in Sad but the union not having their back after happily taking their fees esp col atm, is a special kick in the teeth.

being able to say that in RL other women have her back and will have theirs too is a brilliant thing. and now being able to use as example all work here, and it’s getting press coverage, is great and hopefully will make them feel supported.

sorry that was long and rambly and prob full of SPaG fuck ups Grin (letting the FWR boards down on that!) as not very with it but really wanted to post whilst I could. Flowers (And Pom poms!) to all.

excited pompoms GIF by Mailchimp

Thanks for that - very timely reminder of who we are helping!
If noone is looking after our NHS staff, then how can they look after us?
Happy Pom-Pomming!

OP posts:
nothingcomestonothing · 30/04/2025 19:30

KnottyAuty · 30/04/2025 17:58

Interesting!
Can you imagine?!

In fact Walsall - the rabid ones noted above: CQC "Requires improvement"
I think you are on to something?!
Could we quickly get the CQC ratings gathered up?

Show quote history

The CQC are captured:

When placing a person on a ward, services should ask the patient for their preference. People who live in their affirmed gender should always be offered accommodation according to their gender presentation

www.cqc.org.uk/guidance-providers/healthcare/adult-trans-care-pathway-what-cqc-expects-maternity-gynaecology-0#:~:text=Responsive,their%20own%20anxieties%20and%20concerns).

FarriersGirl · 01/05/2025 07:29

KnottyAuty · 30/04/2025 17:58

Interesting!
Can you imagine?!

In fact Walsall - the rabid ones noted above: CQC "Requires improvement"
I think you are on to something?!
Could we quickly get the CQC ratings gathered up?

Show quote history

@Cantunseeit I did Lincolnshire Community Health yesterday, I think its Lincolnshire Partnership Trust that was outstanding from the list. There are a few lists of trusts with outstanding ratings on websites but the best way to check is on the CQC website itself to ensure it is up to date. This is doable but a bit laborious for a long list of trusts. Could a question be added to the jotform?

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 01/05/2025 07:34

FarriersGirl · 01/05/2025 07:29

@Cantunseeit I did Lincolnshire Community Health yesterday, I think its Lincolnshire Partnership Trust that was outstanding from the list. There are a few lists of trusts with outstanding ratings on websites but the best way to check is on the CQC website itself to ensure it is up to date. This is doable but a bit laborious for a long list of trusts. Could a question be added to the jotform?

Show quote history

Ack! Apologies to you and @Cantunseeit if I’ve got those two mixed up!

Cantunseeit · 01/05/2025 07:46

@FarriersGirl I think you said you would take 27 (Lincolnshire Partnership)upthread. But great if you did Lincolnshire Community- I did too but didn’t find any policies dealing with the relevant issues. Did you?

if not, that Trust will have had three sets of eyes on it so we should be confident of our findings! If you did, just as well we triple checked. Win win 😀

@TwoLoonsAndASprout that leaves Lincolnshire Partnership Trust still to do. Unfortunately I can’t do it today- could pick it up tomorrow if someone else doesn’t come along who can take it on today.

FarriersGirl · 01/05/2025 08:00

@Cantunseeit its a win! The trust policies were largely a trans free zone for once. Apols for the mix up!

umbel · 01/05/2025 12:32

Nottingham University Hospitals NHS Trust now complete.

teawamutu · 01/05/2025 22:03

Just finished 4 and 18 - Royal Orthopaedic and Derbyshire.

Both shit. Annoying.

Faffertea · 01/05/2025 22:06

I’ve just finished Shrewsbury and Telford

Cantunseeit · 02/05/2025 08:51

Morning vipers, I can take a look at Lincolnshire Partnership Trust later on this morning. Please shout if any one else is/has already doing/done

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