Is there any future you'd accept for trans people?

[AYoungTransWoman]

Hello, I'm a young trans person who transitioned in my teens. I've been on hormones my entire adult life, have a GRC and will have Gender Reassignment Surgery imminently.

Is there any future you would accept for people like me who have gone through everything?

I think you're fooling yourself there, @Elsvieta . We've already made progress to have all new build businesses made with male and female toilets. We are seeking to reverse this bit by bit. We will get there and I absolutely fucking PROMISE you, we will not give up until we do. If you think we won't reverse this, you're living in fantasy land and no paying attention to the gains feminists are making. Whether in the US under Trump, or other places. We're already at backwards when we lost these spaces. We're actually going forwards by getting our spaces back. We will unwind 'legal' sex, just you watch and see! Mark my words on this. You remind me of the women who said the suffragettes were wasting time trying to get the vote, and so too the women who wanted to drink in public bars, and so too those who advocated the decriminalising of abortion.

You really underestimate the absolute fucking DETERMINATION we feminists have. You'll be eating your words, that's an iron clad promise.

Then you haven't been paying attention to women and girls and feminists, @Bigwelshlamb . It's about retaining female only intimate safe single sex spaces, and keeping all males including transwomen (97% who retain their penis and testicles and are fully intact males) out of these spaces where women and girls are vulnerable, including rape survivors like me.

It's about being able to keep all males, intact and fully intact, out of rape crisis centres, battered womens shelters.

It's about being able to have spaces where lesbians can meet up without male-bodied people.

It's about fairness in sports and not seeing a woman half-paralysed by the power spike of a male with post pubertal male physical insurmountable advantage and strength who says he feels like and identifies as a girl, as has happened in Volleyball in America and left this poor girl paralysed who received the spike that knocked her on her arse.

It's about keeping safety, dignity and privacy for the female sex class.

But they ARE taking away rights from women! And us feminists are fighting for them back, and we will succeed because this is a feminist civil rights and human rights issue, for females.

You don't understand why vulnerable women and girls feel threatened by an obvious (and 97% genitally fully intact male) male in these single sex spaces?

Really?

Genuinely?

EdithBond

So however unpopular, unsafe, impractical or unhygienic unisex toilet cubicles are, you think they should be imposed on all women because you have a conviction that there should never be any sex segregation.

The irony of your favoured scenario is that there would be less toilet provision than there is now due to space and cost constraints, and turnover would be a lot slower. All of which would negate the one benefit you claim for unisex toilets - not having to queue longer for the women's toilets than men do for men's toilets.

Not quite.

My mother doesn’t trust anything or anyone different. She’s by nature, suspicious. Which can also make her occasionally racist, sexist and homophobic.

She absolutely wouldn’t trust a “man in a dress,” and would be unable to see trans women as anything other than that.

I’d make clear she’s completely uninformed, and has done no reading or research on the subject. She is just deeply against anything that she doesn’t see as “status quo.”

The solution is third spaces. Male, female, and gender neutral.

It's the communal female space with women around women that give females safety and support. One fox in that hen house is a risk.

The solution is to keep all female spaces communal (with cubicles for those females who want them) and have gender neutral spaces for all trans people. Born male? You never enter a female space. It's that simple. There is a reason our foremother feminists fought hard for these hard won female only spaces. An they did not do it with the idea that a male will take a loophole, put on a dress, and then invade these spaces with naive and brainwashed pollyanna-type handmaidens with a naive understanding of the male condition cheering the fox on in the hen house. We females need these spaces now, MORE THAN EVER. The solution is ever, ever, EVER to have any male person EVER in a female space. Not now, NOT EVER. Trans need third spaces, and stay out of female spaces. That's it. That, is the ONLY solution and compromise.

It's not 'anti-trans'. It's ANTI-MALE. Yes, we do know some naive handmaidens think a male in a dress is safe. They've never heard of the Little Red Riding Hood nursery....

None of them are privileged enough to have never encountered violent males, or have absolutely no adverse experience with men.

I don’t believe that privilege fully exists, to be honest? I don’t think there are any women who don’t “have to be concerned” about their safety.

I do however believe there are women who don’t make the link between the behaviour of some men, and the existence of trans women. Or who don’t feel inherently unsafe around either group. There are women who separate the issues into perpetrators of male violence and… other people.

Bit confused by the last point - people can talk to/around me about whatever they please, I’m not the opinion police.

In other words, it's a cowardly way to state you know your position is like a house of cards when held to any scrutiny so you don't have the courage to do so. Just save time and say that. Trans activists always, always run away when they know their arguments are like a house of cards on quicksand. If you could defend your argument, you would.
And you know it.

You might be fine with a fully intact male with penis and testicles in the ladies, but as a RAPE SURVIVOR, I sure as fuck am not. Nor would Domestic Violence survivors be, nor girls just getting their period.

And again, it's anti-male. It's not 'anti-trans'. But since, @Bunny44 , you clearly think womens rights are 'anti-trans', you are admitting pro-trans is anti-women, so I will call you anti-women from now on. See how you like being misrepresented. Ironically, mine is actually closest to the actual truth. It's anti-women. Not 'pro-trans'.

Don't twist it into something it wasn't.'

WOAH! Chris almighty, as if they isn't the classic definition of irony, DARVO and gaslighting! You are the one twisting something (defending female only spaces and rights) into 'anti-trans' when it isn't. Do you own a mirror in your house?

The cheek and gall!

Yes. True standing ovation (and I hope you don't mind? I've copy/pasted this post of yours to use elsewhere when needed, I will state I am referencing someone else). 👏👏👏👏👏

It reminds me of the poem "First they came for....".

It's sad that posters with privilege such as Bunny44 are not able to put themselves in the shoes of very very vulnerable women and girls. How fortunate to be so privileged that you lack the heart to be able consider that other women and girls, as members of the oppressed sex class, are very vulnerable, by virtue of being female - first and foremost - before anything else.

Op, I hope you get access to many more third spaces. There should be no stigma with being a transwoman.
I wish you well in finding training and work opportunities, in building a contented family life, in enjoying all social spaces like every one else.
A transwoman is not a woman in terms of toilets and sporting competition. So I do hope many more third spaces in public facilities and sport competition become available, as they are vitally needed.

@EdithBond And are you seriously saying trans women should have to go in men’s toilets and trans men have to go in the women’s?

Er, yes, duh! Transwomen are males. Fully intact males. They belong in the..... MALE facilities.

Where else would you expect a fully intact male in a dress to be? The females? You can't be serious?!?!!! Are you honestly saying a fully intact male in a dress should enter the females? Please tell us you're farking joking. Please.

As to trans men, that's their choice. As biological females they are not a threat to us, and also not a threat to other males. Perhaps they should be given the choice. But transwomen should NEVER be allowed to any female only spaces based on the fact they are a male and a member of the dangerous oppressor sex class and are a threat to females. So transmen can please themselves I guess, but transwomen must go in the males or gender neutral. Whatever, as long as it's not the females.

You guys are extremely good at twisting everyone's words to make anyone who disagrees with you 'anti women'

Wow... WOW. You still can't see the cognitive dissonance that you call us women who are DESPERATELY trying to save female rights 'anti trans'. You TWIST our words in order to form some sort of narrative you can defend. NONE of us are 'anti-trans'.
But you are most definitely anti-women and anti-female.

These threads always seem to be about anti trans people

And THERE YOU GO AGAIN!! You can't help yourself! To re-quote you: You guys are extremely good at twisting everyone's words to make anyone who disagrees with you 'anti trans'.

Not....one of us is 'anti-trans'. We are PRO-FEMALE RIGHTS. We are PRO-WOMEN. You, are anti women and you are good at maliciously twisting our words to make us who disagree with you 'anti-trans' when WE ARE NOT! Chryst, look in the mirror!

Are you suggesting everything always must be constantly changed for the sake of change? Why?

Edit: it's 5 am and the thread will likely fill before pp can respond. I do find it interesting the idea that everyone and everything must necessarily and self evidently be 'progressive', though).

Hopefully there will be a third space. I personally don't accept someone born as male legally changing their sex. They will never be a woman. I've worked with a transgender woman who used female toilets at work. That's OK. However, I'd not be comfortable in a changing room getting undressed. So, respect how others might feel as we respect your decisions too.

CantStopMoving · Yesterday 21:17
I have unisex toilets at my work. The women are constantly complaining to reception about the state the men leave them in. Seats always left up. (No men I do not want to touch the seat to pull it down again!) Pee on the seats. They don’t clean their poo if they leave a large mark. We have walked in and found men are peeing with the door slightly ajar (nothing pervy- just laziness!). We would give anything to have our women’s loos back!

Your employer is obliged by law to provide adequate, sex segregated facilities for staff. H&S. It sounds like they are in breach: you could contact Building Standards and/or the H&S executive.

Umm … yeh I’m not in the business of policing what other people do with their bodies. It’s a principle I take very seriously. The world would be a better place if more people followed suit.

You are all anti trans , being pro womens rights has nothing to do with excluding/ fearing, rejecting trans people.

This has come up recently on.the board in discussions about extreme BDSM and cannibalism, etc. Self harm, etc.

There are some limits to individual freedoms. Which is why 'the eunich maker' is in prison, despite his victims 'consenting'.

No YOU are anti women. Excluding and fearing INTACT MALES is all about FEMinism and FEMale rights.

Nope.

How is removing females hard won single sex spaces 'progressive'?

You realise you are being regressive by removing female spaces and safeguards to prioritise males, right? You are not progressive, you are regressive and anti-feminist.