Is there any future you'd accept for trans people?

[AYoungTransWoman]

Hello, I'm a young trans person who transitioned in my teens. I've been on hormones my entire adult life, have a GRC and will have Gender Reassignment Surgery imminently.

Is there any future you would accept for people like me who have gone through everything?

Ahhh so because we are at risk more from men we know we should let unknown males into female single sex spaces on the basis that they claim to identity as women.....

My goodness, I hope safeguarding and women's rights generally are never something you have any control over.

Goodness me.

All men are potentially a threat to women (and each other, to be fair), but those who wear a cloak of deception are to be trusted even less.

Beggars belief, doesn't it?

Since it has been ignored up to now, I will put it in bold:

Can anyone please link up the evidence that indicates that male people at any stage of transition should be considered a lower risk than the rest of the UK male population for robust safeguarding?

You're literally just confirming what I wrote in my post 🤷🏻‍♀️.

Tbh I've got no more time to discuss this. My point was all along that not all women have the same view on the trans subject. I stand by that. I'm allowed my view and you can have yours. Good night.

If unisex toilets are the most equitable solution and some people like yourselves prefer these toilets- why can’t we have single sex toilets AND unisex ones. I am sure most venues could cater for one or 2 separate enclosed stalls. That way anyone transgender can use the unisex ones and anyone else who has that preference and then people who prefer single sex toilets can use those. Isn’t this the best solution for everyone?

So you see women's rights as being anti -trans? Have I got that right? Is that your view?

That the loss of women's rights in favour of 'trans' is OK in your view? Really?

Won’t anyone think of the poor non-binary people?
They must be in a living nightmare because they can’t decide which facility they should use 😵‍💫

This whole ideology is about removing women’s boundaries, it’s about making women doubt themselves and what they know to be true, based on their own experiences.

This isn’t solely about toilets, but you already know that. It’s about protecting women in situations where we can be vulnerable, prisons, rape crisis centres, and also protecting the integrity of women’s sports. Protecting our rights to have things that exclude men.

I’m fully aware of the statistics regarding men who are known to women being the most dangerous, but two things can be relevant at the same time, we shouldn’t stop protecting women and girls in other areas because the risk isn’t as great, because it’s still a risk.

‘Now you'll turn round and say but not my husband, not all men are like that.... 👀

I’m glad you brought this up, because it’s very relevant. I’ve been with my husband for 32 years, he has never given me any cause to think that he is in any way capable of violence towards anyone, but you don’t know that, because you don’t know him, and that’s exactly why he, and any other man, shouldn’t ever be in a single sex space with you, or any other women.

Not all women have the same views on this - agreed. Perhaps you and your liberal, academic friends might have a think about what it means for much less privileged women than you, if men have access to women's single sex spaces.

I doubt you/your friends will ever have to worry about sharing a prison cell with a man. But some women will.

Do you really think that differences in race are equivalent to differences in sex?

I don't know what you mean by 'sisterhood', but I need the word 'woman' to explain the rights I have to protect. My life is different to my mother's and my grandmothers because the society I live in is organised around the idea that I can control my fertility. I am worth educating. Unlike my mother I had the right to return to work after having children. I can be economically independent and am not controlled by by husband or father.

None of this has anything to do with how I identify, and I can't take any of it for granted. Access to contraception can be taken away intentionally or by an oversight during a pandemic. Maternity rights could be removed by a change in government. When I say 'sex based rights' this is what I am talking about.

Gender - societal expectations of how a man or a woman should behave - actively harm and restrict me.

Why should any woman be expected to agree to this?

So, you don't have any evidence that a male person at any stage of transition is any less likely to commit sex crimes than the rest of the UK male population, which is what we should be seeing if one group of male people in the UK are to be treated differently for safeguarding purposes?

But you are telling women that they are less at risk of attack from that group of male people? Yet you cannot support this with evidence.

Yes, women and children are at risk at home. But tell us again, why do you want female people to be face additional risks when they are out of the home, based on evidence to the contrary?

And yes, we have evidence that that supports that that group you have told us are not the issue, are most definitely STILL very much the same risk as all other males in the UK.

The OP won't be back, because what they want is affirmation, and quite a lot of actual women aren't playing ball.

Do you really think that differences in race are equivalent to differences in sex?

You can tell someone hasn't used more than two brain cells to think about this when they trot this one out. Funnily enough they never do reply when you ask which race is the equivalent, in their analogy, to the one sex that commits nearly all violence and sexual assault.

Almost like it's not at all similar after all!

Do you not think that a woman who has been abused by a partner might have reason to have a visceral fear of men in general? Why shouldn't she have access to spaces that exclude men?

Do you think men only abuse women they know?

Describing policies that allow single sex services as 'anti trans' is the red herring.

Not sure what you mean. I don’t think any of us should be forced to pretend you’ve changed sex. Single sex spaces are important to women (and men) and we have the right to privacy and safety. But in terms of “any future” - well the same as everyone else. I wish you no harm but we want our rights

I think it's disingenuous to make it about fearing men as statistically we're far more at risk in so many other situations involving men.

Tell that to the TW who seem to think using male facilities with other males is a threat to them.

Its not though, is it? You've admitted as much.

They simply don't want womens facilities to exist that they cannot access. They aren't bothered about the limitations of unisex facilities, they just don't want any women space or opportunities to exclude them because then the pretence is over.

Honestly, I couldn’t care less. And I mean that as I really don’t care about anyone at all what matters is that people around me are good company, kind and empathic and just positive to be around.
so if you are the above that’s what matters. Everyone is special so treat everyone like they matter.

It's not about the "dangers of trans people". That's silly, emotive language which demonstrates you either don't have the first clue what our views actually are, or are unaware of the facts (as opposed to your unevidenced beliefs and the cut and paste propaganda you've been told to spout). Do you understand the difference between those two things?

We are probably FAR freer about gender stereotypes here than you people ever have been. Because we don't base an entire ideology on backwards, limiting sex stereotype ideals of so-called "masculinity" and "femininity". You do. Frankly, your views are massively old fashioned to me. Even my grandmother was more "liberal" on that than you people are, and she was born in the first decade of the 20th century. So the claim that you are somehow "advanced" and progressive is utterly laughable, frankly. Your views on men and women are backwards. We ditched them decades ago. That you don't appear aware of that is both tragic and ignorant. You have been misinformed. Most likely, given that your views feed nicely into the anti feminist backlash that took hold in the last 30 years, quite deliberately. It is not a coincidence that you are of the generation that came of age when that was going on, and not a coincidence that you have been strangely misinformed about the facts.

What we are concerned about is the statistical, verifiable dangers presented by MEN. The male half of the population, who, FACTUALLY and statistically, have enormously and disproportionately higher rates of violence, and crucially, for women, sexual violence, than women do. That isn't a "stereotype" because it's evidenced and backed up by the statistics all over the world. These facts are what led to women and men having single sex spaces and services in some circumstances, usually the ones where women are undressed and vulnerable. The reason for this is that while it may be a relative minority of men, women do not know which men these are. They do not wear neon signs saying "It's me." But statistically, for instance, 99% of sex offenders are biological males, and over 80% of their victims are females. "Trans women" I'm afraid make up a part of the biological male group and not the female.

Most crucially, the EVIDENCE shows that "trans people" who claim they are women retain exactly the same crime rates and types as the average MEN. And not, as they would like to claim, as women.

It is not "hate" to point this out. It's THE salient point when it comes to single sex spaces and services.

Why do YOU think that we have those in certain circumstances, and why they are considered globally as crucial for the fundamental human rights of women and girls the world over? Do you understand the reasons?

What is the future you are looking for?

OP has left the building!

Obviously got what they wanted from the thread.

And this argument:

'For example women and children are most at risk by a mile from their own partners and families (both in terms of murder, violence and rape). Trans women in toilets and strangers in bushes are red herrings to distract us from the very real danger that your own husband or partner (statistically & theoretically speaking) poses to you and your kids and other women and children around you.'

This argument above ignores the situation when that abusive husband or partner is one of the very people with a transgender identity that female people wish privacy and safety from when they go into a female single sex space.

Or have you forgotten about that intersecting group?

I know of at least a couple of women who have described having to have their ex-husbands or ex-partners just continue their abusive behaviour by being in the much needed single sex space with them. Or do you think that those female people's needs should be dismissed as unimportant too?

Have you asked transwomen who invade women's single sex spaces where their empathy is for women who want or need single sex spaces?

Have you asked them why they don't treat women as though we, and our needs and rights, matter?

Screenshots a plenty, I imagine.

I do wish the OP better mental health so they can reach a point where they no longer lie to themself or permit therapists and dubious medical professionals to do so.