NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #12

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11

Continuation thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

I’m so sick of it all I could cry

men hate us
they kill us
but they want to be us
they lie and say they are us when they arent

even if this case goes our way how will we ever manage to resolve the deeper problems we have with misogyny in our society

and to the women including supposed friends who have bullied me, wished violence upon me and called me names for expressing so called GC views. Fuck off. You’ve helped enable this absolute fucking shitshow

@SauvignonBlanche I know, my understanding is the GRA only works once to go from natal sex to legal sex and there is no process to reverse it. I assume it was thought you would only change once and there would be no regrets.

Also from the Scottish Trans Alliance (who basically set the policy for the Scottish Prison Service) -

‘We strategized – we strategized – that by working intensively with the Scottish Prison Service to support them to include trans women as women on a self-declaration basis within very challenging circumstances, we would be able to ensure that all other public services should be able to do likewise’

• James Morton

Don't pay any attention to Sally Hines. She's batshit.

and gender (identity) added as a separate protected characteristic.

Why do you consider it should be a separate protected characteristic?

It's all to do with the data not being as secure as the government requires. The system we use to observe is the same that is used to record all court hearings, which are then stored as evidence.

A woman called Harriet Feldman has started a crowdfunder for the doctor for "love and treats" to reward the terrible behaviour

Or possibly married name Upton?

Boak

I'm sure it'll be up to 11k in no time.

Oh that is such good news that the video is evidence. The words on the page are not enough to convey the snake-like sophistry

On the bright side, that alone means it has to be rewritten. And that means a new parliamentary debate.

There’s at least one child in the country whose parents didn’t notice the registrar made a mistake when registering the birth. They are apparently stuck with that, no facility to amend it.

And there are babies who need further investigation before they are registered- would there be sufficient time, does anyone know? It’s rare but the much referenced DSD does actually exist!

Dr Upton is an empathetic person. So much so that he will not tell patients requesting female care that he's a man. Nor will he assume that by 'female' the mean 'not him'. However, obce they are alone in a consultation room, if they say 'go away' he will.

He attempted to waste time by listing all the consultation rooms.

The first investigation that wasn't an investigation was an investigation. Confirmed.in one of the 'lost' emails.

NC used the phrases 'Emperor's new clothes' and 'compulsory interactive roleplay'. A lot.

JR had failed to explain that 'disclose all your emails' meant 'disclose all your emails', so another 12 chains of emails landed at lunchtime.

The system fell over.

JR expected NC to be able to read and assess all the emails in 20 minutes, and incorporate them into her remaining cross, and anyway none of them are relevant. NC told her she was having a laugh. The judge agreed that you couldn't decide what they contained was irrelevant without knowing what they contained.

They all disagreed about timings.

We're all barred.

Any excuse to post again.
And every time I walk past the Barry Hines statue in Barnsley my first thought is how did he produce Sally.

There is a system to place an amendment on the register. But, unlike with GRCs, the original entry is not deleted.

Comments are very gushy. Bless. Hope he gets himself off for a nice spa weekend when this is done.

It's what every man needs after a tense few days on the stand lying under oath about his own sodding sex.

Absolutely.

Just resharing this info re the GMC's obfuscation and support of sex-deception.

General Medical Council has provided FOI responses in which they confirm that they have granted doctors’ requests to edit their entries on the public register as follows:

• The GMC has removed the gender of 45 doctors from the public register
• The GMC has agreed to represent 54 male doctors as female on the register
• The GMC has agreed to represent 24 female doctors as male on the register

The GMC also stated ‘We do not record the sex of doctors, so we do not hold this information’. Only doctors’ gender, which they are treating to mean ‘gender identity’.

This was of course lobbied for by TRAs. It needs to be more widely known. I'm a doctor and I didn't know you could change your sex and GMC number on the register. So I'm guessing that not many members of the general public know.

So I guess we can thank both Dr Upton and Sandie Peggie for bringing attention to the issue.

These sessions have really brought home how important the words are and why if they win the right to Humpty Dumpty the language, we'll really have lost everything.

I felt ridiculously upset just reading the summary on here of DU insisting that he is female, biologically female.

It makes it so hard to argue against, and it means that any time anyone says "of course we can have female only spaces" you have to play their own game by interrogating what they actually mean by female, and if they say "biological females" you'd then have to ascertain do they include "biological females" like DU?

The words have been rendered meaningless and it's utterly ludicrous that in an actual court someone can completely subvert the meaning of commonly understood words and be allowed to do it.

Be kind my actual arse. It is not kind for a tiny minority to remove meaning from our language for their own completely selfish ends - and it is selfish.

I absolutely include transmen in this tiny minority as they have been working from the other end by removing the right to use sex based language when it can only apply to females (in the absolutely commonly and only definition of that word).

Clearly orchestrated and deliberate.

Don't forgot his big girl pants.

Very useful summary - thanks!

It's all to do with the data not being as secure as the government requires. The system we use to observe is the same that is used to record all court hearings, which are then stored as evidence.

That makes sense @GCITC, I'm just a bit gutted that this means I can't be their Zoom host...

Continuation thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13