NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #12

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11

Ffs just cap the number if the system can only cope with 200 allow in the first 200. I’m guessing this is the first time they’ve had to manage a case with so much public interest but it’s not rocket science.

This about sums Dr U up...
https://twitter.com/5uffragette/status/1889277433091670266?s=19

It's possible they were hacked - and trying to figure out how to avoid it in future.

Very convenient for NHS Fife if their witnesses are subject to less public scrutiny.

think IT support forgot to set the 'mute all' / camera off setting - and is using the numbers thing as an excuse

They didn't forget, it must have been toggled off somehow

Placemarking - can't keep up easily when I'm 5 hours behind the UK,

I agree, especially about #3, as this was an accusation against SP's professional behaviour as a very experienced nurse.

Being accused of hurting DrU's feelings by staying in/goingout/not waving but working or whatever is bad, but nothing compared with being accused of putting patient safety at risk.

So I think the dismantling of DrU's evidence today may have done SP more good than all the rest of the cross x.

Seconded again. At the risk of being all a bit Upton-ed

When JR states that there is no smoking gun, how does she do so with credibility? She thought everything that was required to be disclosed had been disclosed prior to the hearing. Since then, there have been 2 sets of information have come to light that had not been disclosed, but should have. How goes she know there isn't more?

I did wonder if it was a different clerk on duty today who wasn't used to the system. It's actually been quite smooth considering until this morning which was mental.

I think what we are seeing here is an individual who has no respect for women, who has no respect for hospital management, who has no respect for the need for a proper investigation and disciplinary process, no respect for the court and ultimately no respect for the law.

That is not necessarily because he is ‘trans’ but I think his transness and the cult like behaviour of many of the activists has got someone who was already a narcissist to this point.

this is not going to end well for him at all.

If Teams was the system the court used your experience might be helpful.

@Shortshriftandlethal you can’t blame chatting here for the breakdown of access to the tribunal.

I get it’s irritating. MN threads haven’t caused this.
The information you want from this thread, is still available elsewhere.

That went well then, didn't it?

Is the a penalty for one side failing to disclose documents?

Thanks everyone for keeping us all updated.

It was the system being overwhelmed by demand that did it. My point was that due to the obvious technical difficulties it would have been better for fewer of us to access the live stream, and for the rest to follow updates on here. Now we have nothing.

It could simply be bandwidth or IT support availability issue. These tribunals would normally have very few observers so dealing with them would be one of many other jobs the staff have to do. Managing this hearing is not a side of desk job.

"no smoking gun" - but an email that shows there was an investigation, or what the person doing it identified as an investigation " when that wouldnt have come to light otherwise.

Dr U could legitimately omit anything about a GRC that involved his personal medical history, although it would be surprising if he sent that sort of information to the BMA.

Yes. I'll still have this thread to chat on and I can follow the hearing via TT.

I'm looking forward to the next tribunal and your live thread giving a detailed account of the goings on at court.

No that was me with obscure sarcasm about having to slot things in where they weren't wanted

I blame the baby

Any emails on NHS Trust email cannot by definition be private and should not have been withheld. Hopefully he's damaged the process and dropped himself in some hot water.

I don't think we want to see any more oneUptonship on this thread about pins and access and what we're allowed to discuss

Whether the failure to mute was an act of omission or commission I'm inclined to think it was incompetence at the root of it rather than malicious intent. In another professional life I've had to deal with the 'backroom' at courts. The words I'd use to describe my experiences are piss up and brewery.

It was the system being overwhelmed by demand that did it. My point was that due to the obvious technical difficulties it would have been better for fewer of us to access the live stream, and for the rest to follow updates on here. Now we have nothing.

That's the fault of the court for not limiting access then? I got my link right at the beginning, I had every right to view it. Who do you think didn't?

If they were serious about it, they could use a webinar system that automatically turns off cameras and microphones for the public etc.

Or livestream it on YT and turn off the comments.

Just pay the money! Open Justice needs it