NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #12

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11

I really doubt that this forum was the only source of people requesting to observe the hearing.

I have emailed to make the point that many of us have been well behaved observers for a week or more now. And could they take this into account. I think public access is still very important and shouldn't be cut off because the system can't cope

This is just typical of public services in the UK in general. Reactive, rather than proactive.

I really don’t think it is helpful to suggest that there is anything any of us should have done differently.

To use that beloved lawyer’s phrase “we are where we are”.

I do wonder what all these disclosure shenanigans are doing for DU and Fife’s credibility. I wouldn’t trust Fife to organise a proverbial in a brewery let alone a robust disciplinary investigation.

Oooh, could Upton Syndrome be catching, we wonder? This is FWR: chit chat is always welcome.

Yes, the TRAs will be all over this.

Rosie Duffield's question now in Hansard:
"Does the Minister believe that the NHS should expect biologically female nursing staff to get changed in front of biologically male colleagues who identify as female?"

Karin Smyth
"No"

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2025-02-11/debates/5B6AC160-06C3-401F-9E40-262A6A2CA5B7/OralAnswersToQuestions

The forced teaming of TQIA+ with LGB has a lot to answer for - it has allowed some crazy ideas to be accepted unquestioned into the NHS

Dr Upton is allowing his T belief system to directly influence his interactions with patients. He admits that he is falsely presenting himself to patients because he feels he is a woman. He justifies this with the circular logic, I am a woman because I say I am.

His comments about sex and gender are truly shocking for someone with medical degree who interacts with vulnerable patients.

Will the NHS ever be able to separate LGB from TQIA+?

"Now now gells" (best maggie smith voice)
Let's keep the ire directed to the Dr in question please

Wow.

I stand corrected then, I thought someone mentioned earlier that it was Teams that was behind the court system. The barbed comment feels a tad unnecessary.

We’re not going to be stopped from talking about cake and cereal again, are we?!

@YourWiseBee 'this is not going to end well for him (Upton) at all.'
I lost faith in Judges when they ruled against Maya F in her 1st hearing- I was gobsmacked when the judge ruled belief in reality isn't WORIADS- and when the Judicial College first started requiring judges refer to male rapists as women.

So I lack your optimism, but if necessary it'll go to appeal.

Right. We have 4 pages left to recover collegiate feeling and get back on task!

Bore off

What @ickky said.

Although....Upton says he is biologically female (and gave a super-logical explanation of this!) so it depends on whether or not who is asked this question believes that.

@ickky Can you post the other links as i cannot access x thanks xx

Does anyone know the significance of Isla Bumba's (?) evidence? Where does she fit in?

The NHS needs to separate the reality of sex from the nonsense that is 'gender'.

Why can’t they just livestream on youtube? Works in court in the US. Pathetic.

And Vic Valentine? I see they is with the Scottish Trans Alliance.

Something I’m noticing about the inequity of all this, with union reps uninterested in boring old style wims etc…

I think they basically trophy hunt, and supporting a poor downtrodden [insert fad here] is more exciting than run of the mill basic women’s rights stuff.

Like, you know, breastfeeding, privacy, maternity etc. All of which is still underway all over the country.

Meeting was cancelled so I'm just catching up on this afternoon's shambles!

Stupid question but what happens if you just leave stuff out?? How would anyone know?

My comment was factual and to the point.

I don't want to be accused of irrelevant posting again.

(By the way did the recipe for the double caramel cake ever get posted?)