NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #11

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10

Has the good Doctor actually defined what he thinks a woman IS?

I'd love to hear it.

Has anyone asked this question yet?

Who switched on the baby interruption! I suspect some interruptions are carefully timed.

If I went into a changing room and a nurse I knew promptly left I would probably not notice. If I did notice, I would assume they had somewhere else they needed to be at that time. If I then saw them waiting outside the door I would assume they were either waiting for someone else, had forgotten something or were going back to use the toilet.

I've also failed to notice a friend waving at me on the street until they waved their arm across my face, and definitely struggle to recognise colleagues in 'normal' clothes when I only ever see them in scrubs or uniform at work.

All of these things are normal and demonstrate normal social behaviour and the limits of human attention.

He said something yesterday about a woman is someone who identifies as a woman and moves through life/ the world as a woman.

That was amazing. NC saying that it's all an immersive role play, and that he is forcing everyone to play along because he needs to keep control, and knows that if one starts saying the truth they will all wise up. And that he was even trying to force the claimant and her legal team to play along in court using his pronouns because he needs to keep control

Ah, yes, dressing up unreasonable abusive requests as 'basic respect' - so many women have been there already.

Next there's the doing normal things that people do and not what they say = showing disrespect.

Oh and the avoiding contact (because of the attempt to take away your words and your autonomy and to control you) is also disrespectful. Classic abuse.

@Signalbox "I don't think it would help because his definition of female is not biological it is that he identifies as female."

But we don't have self-ID and he doesn't have a GRC. It's his own sole delusion.

Sorry if I'm pointing out the bloody obvious

Aah, I've been logged out, now I'm back at the black screen with WFTCHTJ message. Why won't they let me in?

fux sake

we are going to lose access....sure of it

Someone is deliberately trying to get this shut down now, because the abuse is clear for all to see.

Absolutely. As @themostspecialelfintheworkshop says
he doesn't respect sex realist beliefs? Only one side is trying to compel pronouns and women to lie, but others have human rights too.

Wow NC went there and said that Upton was engaging in coercive control and then asked whether forced compelled pronouns were 'basic respect' thus establishing an arc that coercive control may include forced pronouns.

Interesting.

That opens up a future can of worms.

Keep in mind Cass said pronoun use was not a neutral act...

People really need to behave if they're in the court room. They're going to turn the streaming off!

People seem to be having difficulty logging on in observer mode and having camera/mics turned off...

God I'm not looking too good on there, sorry everyone.

Ah good old circular logic.

Can he define it without using the word itself?
This should really be drilled down into.

Fucking hell we're going to get booted out 😤

NC's point about immersive role play and how it's broken by one person not going along with it, and how this causes anger, is the one made in Kathleen Stock's book Material Girls. Very worth reading if you haven't yet.

It's not rocket science for the court to mute all observers or not allow any option other than joining as an observer with no mic and no video. If we're denied observing because of this I'm going to complain. Open justice my arse.

NC - team required lip service

JR - I never used word lip service

<noises off, turn your camera off! >

Taking a break because more interruptions.

I really wish the tribunal service would invest in an efficient IT system. The interruptions from people who cannot manage their mics and videos are extremely annoying.

Why can they not have a decent set up?
Why is the clerk(s) not hot on this?

Ffs who's this again

Is it really that hard for the clerk to disallow.anyone not joining as an observer / mute & turn off cameras?

Not sure whether to suspect malice or incompetence?