NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #11

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10

We're never going change this guy. He's a zealot. And has all sorts of issues.

The judge doesn't seem to be to be very impartial tho. I can easily feel he is partly responsible for the way this is going.

That could be, of course, because I see this weighted so heavily against women, I'm wondering why he doesn't address the balance.

Oh yes!

So some of his complaints are about things he assumed.

Like his assumption, the first time she left the changing room when he came in, that it was b/c trans

She didn't want to share with him b/c trans.

Not because she doesn't share with any males due to previous assault by a medical professional.

She stayed in the changing room xmas eve so she could verbally attack him b/c trans

Not because she urgently needed to get changed.

And then he's got the brass neck to call himself empathetic

Whilst also making it the responsibility of a v ill female patient who has already asked for same sex care to have to specifically refuse an intimate examination being performed by him.

We're never going change this guy. He's a zealot. And has all sorts of issues.

Exactly. I don't want to change him. I want policy made so that women have protection from men like him.

86 in the waiting room

Bloody love it when questions like this get asked. Means we have relative newbies to these threads and the more the merrier, come on in the kettle's on! ☕️

He does seem to have had a habit of writing notes/reports/emails about things that either didn't happen (Sandie referring to Isla Bryson/rapists - she didn't) or things Sandie might have noticed/thought.

Maybe JR has learned from him - I did enjoy her objecting to "these questions that my opponent is going to ask" a couple of days ago.

Yes. And I think we're all suffering from the overwhelming need to have people acknowledge what he is.

He's in a job interview - A+E is a challenging yet interesting environment to work in!

Yes. he. Did.

NC- moving on to vanishing patient incident.

It's right that A&E is busy?

BU - yes

NC - triage is about prioritising

BU - yes

NC - patitns sometimes have to wait, patients sometimes give up and go home

BU - they do

NC - if patient went home fair assumption they'd waited a logn time

BU - one reason, but can't comment without seeing notes

NC - fair to assume? Busy, everyone working hard

BU - generally busy, but variable. Challenging environment to work in. No typical day, but probably busy

NC - challenging nature means it's kind of envronment means quite easy to get things a bit wrong - comms judder a bit, agree? In comms with collg, even without illwill, lot going on?

BU - can happen, we put empahsis on comms because it's a busy and urgent place, things can get lost in translation, we try hard not to do that because it's important

🤮

He's just said there is 'emphasis on communicating clearly' in A&E yet has shown a complete inability to do so about matters of fact like sex!!

Jaw on the floor.

They don’t have a majority at the moment, but managed to get their budget passed.

I’d like to think that the tribunal and gender ideology would be a key election issue, but am not convinced. In any case it would probably help the Tories unless Scottish Labour discover a backbone and challenge it. The likely outcome if Labour stay Schaumburg is another SNP government.

Exactly.

Clearly this man doesn't respect the need for enthusiastic consent. Instead he expects enthusiastic dissent. But if you dare enthusiastically dissent in a changing room then you're a bigot.

I am convinced by DU's behaviour that the patient care complaint was entirely trumped up. Which is very serious.

How could anyone ever feel safe being treated by a doctor whose judgement is so clouded?
He actually believes that nobody reads him as male?

If you put this guy in a room with 9 females, and asked the general public to pick out the male from the group of 10, the correct guess rate would be 100%.
Every time.
Delusion at it's finest.

He called a colleague the wrong name? Gosh, I hope that colleague made a contemporaneous note.

And I wonder if you enthusiastically dissent whether he'd label you aggressive and deny you care.

He's getting cross

Accidentally let the facade slip a tiny bit then

NC - fair to assume everyone focussing on comms, sometimes in urgency, that tone may get neglected?

BU - yes

but again, quite common that in emergency, if you're v stressed, general understanding that's how we communicat,e I called collg wrong name once, afterwards I apologised

NC - kind of environment in which fatigue or distraction could be misinterpreted

BU - possible, you need to understand A&E isn't a single environment, it's several that are shifting, [examples of scenarios] in an acute situation you may struggle, but training is to comm clearly even in those situations.

Ffs. Is there lots of time for social niceties in A&E? Yes or no!

This isn't delusion. He's a qualified DR. It's coercive control/ abuse of women.

NC - in 'formal complaint' your written accountt of interaction, 'on nigth shift with SP who as usual didn't acknowledge my presence, I couldn't find her to ask about patient, Rihanna went to look for her, SP came back, Id asked if there were any concerns, she responded to Rihanna, not me, I got no acknowledgement. I recorded this as an instance of rudenes but not patient safety issue'