NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #11

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10

I can't believe how much swearing I have already done this morning like others I am actually shaking with anger - no wonder Sandie was uncomfortable being anywhere near him in a changing room everything we are seeing screams "threat" to women.

Sex is a "deeper term"? Deeper than what? They should honestly bring a biologist on.

no, because I'm a doc I consdier it in a deeper term. I'm required to to do my job.

He didn't really answer the point. Why would biological sex be relevant at all if referring to it is a "nebulous dog whistle"?

It doesn't matter. Streeting is ambitious and influential in the Labour Party. So yes he may look at that aspect to get around the issue of it being devolved.

Plus there's a Scottish election soon. Labour will get in, which means even with devolved matters, Streeting will have greater influence even from Westminster.

It is somewhat untenable to have a position as a party where females working for the NHS or being cared for by the NHS will be treated in a manner so completely at odds with each other.

There would ultimately be a legal case brought on the grounds that equality was not the same in Scotland as it was in England, if we end up with a mess of a situation like that...

Yep

I think she is actually.

When you say empty do you mean remove the plates and cups or does it mean remove everything including the water spout that the water comes from, or do you mean...........

NC - you told Eslpeth pit about Xmas even incident as soon as it happened.

Then emailed Kate Searle in small hours Xmas morning.

BU - yes

NC - last page of yr email to KS. you say 'i'm not sure what the next steps are to improve/resolve. I'm shaken, concerned I don't feel safe working with SP, dont' feel safe using CR if she's there'

Did you catch his performance yesterday? He said that 'biological sex' is a ''nebulous dogwhistle'' and that it's not true that you need gametes from a male and a female to make a baby😬

It's terrifying that someone like him can be a doctor.

Can't she quote Robert Winston here?

I actually can't take any more. I had to stop watching yesterday as he was so infuriating, now I can't even bear reading what you're all reporting here on this thread. If Sandie loses, I think I might lose my mind!

Unfortunately I don't think Naomi has had the kind of relentless, ongoing bollocks conversations with TRAs that people get on Twitter, or here.

You have to mentally review your questions to eliminate any possibility of nuance or ambiguity

So yes, somebody who has a gender identity may be on different medication. So you will eliminate that possibility by saying not on any medication.

On the other hand, she is reacting normally, reasonably and rationally.

As Will all the journalists watching

I think she is. And more than that, I think she's bringing some very salient points into a public arena that people wouldn't have been aware were happening... ie that a female patient who requests a female doctor could well be given a trans man without their consent

It’s pretty ironic that his grandstanding about using 'clear language' because otherwise he can’t understand what NC is asking leads him to spout reams of contradictory, waffly bollocks, leaving everyone baffled.

I agree. I also have no issue with a male Dr doing an internal exam etc but I would have a huge issue with a trans woman doing one because I would automatically assume they are at best mentally unwell and no one wants to be cared for by a Dr who is mentally unwell.

My dentist asks what medication I am on

not my GI

NC - you want action taken

BU - yes, I hope situation is going to be resolved, improve.

NC - from BU's letter to BMA. 'I'm currently upset and shaken by recent escalation, tho I can see it's been coming for a while, considering formal complaint, concerned about pushback, especially considering political landscape, don't feel safe working as a trans person, next due on shift 28th december'

If Sandie Peggie loses it'll be a strong message that gender identity ideology had really got out of control is now is causing significant problems in society.

I went for an internal ultrasound and was faced with a male sonograpther with no warning. I expressed my discontent with this and he said he understood and I was ok to not go ahead and reschedule. My response was that as I was on the 2 week wait with potential cancer, I was not willing to wait a further period of time to be scanned as this would be detrimental to my health. So I went ahead, but complained afterwards.

Why should the patient have to wait longer because this clown wants to pretend he's a woman?

Sociopathy Traits
Lack of empathy for others.
Impulsive behavior.
Attempting to control others with threats or aggression.
Using intelligence, charm, or charisma to manipulate others.
Not learning from mistakes or punishment.
Lying for personal gain.

Breathy voice is back

For the first time in my life, I feel sorry for judges.

They have to sit through hours of crazy people talking shit without rolling their eyes, gibbering senselessly or swigging back hip flasks of gin and swearing under their breath, much less out loud.

No wonder they sometimes say mad things. They must driven mad by some witnesses.

So should we all be getting a note in our nhs records of all sexual assaults and circumstances so that they can ensure we are not confronted by a male cross dress Doctor or nurse?
If I wasn’t concerned that such male cross dressing doctors and nurses might get off on that info I would.

NC - in next para, this is on Boxing day in email to BMA: 'given time of year, I feel utterly alone as superiors yet to respond or address situation'. Telling BMA in urgent need for practical action?

BU - saying I'm scared, distressed and upset, I feel alone, asking for advice.

Yes. The white tra always like to hijack black people to prop up their arguments.
Pisses me off no end.
Everyone is a prop in this pantomime.