NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #9

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8

Perhaps the most astonishing thing was his claim to believe that being "biologically female" means the same as being both "biological" (ie not a robot) and female.
If that is true any human (therefore biological) being who instantiates any property does so "biologically". E.g. someone who is human and late for work is "biologically late for work: someone who is human and is fond of reading novels is "biologically fond of reading novels".
No one could sincerely believe that is how "biologically" is used. Surely the panel must conclude that he is being disingenuous?

Sorry to hear that Sickky.

I'd like to ask him what action Dr U would recommend on an unconscious young adult trauma patient with no ID. How do you know whether or not to do a pregnancy test? 'guess'?

My baby DB was born at home. No doctor was present, and the uber-capable midwife, after attending to mum and the new baby, called 3-year-old me in to show me the baby and specifically draw my attention to his 'bits' and how they were different to mine 😂 That woman peaked me good and early.

Is she implying that <clutches pearls> people might lie!!!? <faints dead away>

Totally, some idiot of a nursing associate makes TikTok videos calling herself a nurse. She isn’t. I’ve politely pointed that out and she went off on a rant saying she’s no different to a nurse and can do everything a nurse can. I listed the nmc table of differences and suggested she must be acting out her scope of practice 😁

If he’s been reminded by his support posse to be extra womanly, will we be treated to a tinkly laugh and a coy wave?

Idk I missed that part

It may be that lets him off the hook but SP can still say no

Then it comes back to who said it was ok

Why did they overrule SP requirement for safety and privacy?

And she was right to say no

It was fun when it dawned on him that he can't use the same technique that he does on Twitter. You can't answer a question with a question you absolute plum.

And if he can lie so easily in a court of law about something as basic as his sex then the judge will have to assume the same amount of lieing has gone on throughout Dr Upton's evidence. He's not a reliable witness.

Better to be a rapist than a torturer, NHS Fife barrister helpfully argues in court

He might think he's clever but he definitely is not.

He's regurgitating Twitter level TRA arguments and talking points. They just don't stand up to any kind of questioning.

So what's the difference between a cis woman and a biological woman?

I wish I was a midwife in Fife…I’d really look forward to him doing his obs and gynae rotation 😆

And believe me I’d be leaving the changing room if he came in.

So he has lied under oath. What happens with that? Or is lying under oath ok now?

I’m presuming that at some point NC will get on to the point that just because DrU sincerely believes they are a woman, thanks to Maya no one else is obliged to believe it too?

I’ll be honest, I wasn’t a fan of a lot of NCs line of questioning this morning (Nick Kamen?) but she was warming up in the last 45 minutes before lunch. Hopefully she’s got a better measure of what the judge will allow to word her questions apparently. And I’d like to see the gloves come off a bit.

I just know he'll specialise in obs and gynae. All that control, all that discomfort. He'd bloody love it.

The people who have just come in… who are they? I’m just getting my bearings.

Seems to have been that way for some time.

Just catching up at lunch.

Was interested in this comment "DU I disagree that I'm male. Y'll have to ask them how they experienced me."

He knows he's male, otherwise he'd be a woman and not trans and this case wouldn't exist.

So he doesn't say "I'm not male" because that's a direct lie. He tries to lie more subtly with the misdirection "I disagree" as though it's a matter of opinion.

I would be terrified of being treated by this man, how can he be trusted to give proper treatment if he can't be directly truthful in a court?

The one handed undoing of the jacket before sitting down. Like a meeting of the Rotary Club.

A doctor who does not understand sex differentiation is not safe to practice.

This is all so bloody horrifying.

back for round 2. have cleaned the oven and done another 100 piecesof my big jig saw. This time with double caramel cake (homemade naturally becos real woman) and my remaining caramel egg.

Grief, did JR manage to insert something that SP didn't say? I thought it had been cleared up that SP referred to men in prisons, not a specific person who also happened to be a convicted rapist?

If you are all feeling as angry as I am, don't rage eat sugary consumables or kick the cat; instead, make another payment to the wonderful Alexander Bell tribute in honour of biological dad's and biological daughters everywhere. You won't even have to prove you're not a robot! And you only need one finger to make the payment not 5 or even 4. So it's a win-win 🏆 😘