NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #9

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8

NC: in timeline of interactions with SP, you described where she 26th August, she sees you in CR and leaves, and waits for you to leave - Beth's note:

'From this I concluded she didn't want to be in CR with me for her own reasons, I raised with KSearle, she agreed, asked if I wanted SP to be spoken to'

Quite. But readers not up to speed as we are with all this bollocks may well take the simplistic but erroneous view that a man who has had surgery and/or hormones is 'biologically' a woman.

That's absolutely shameful.

I simply cannot imagine voting for Labour ever again. They are the party that should have supported women throughout all this gender bollocks.

I'm angrily munching m&s four cheese combo mix 😠

Just caught up on this morning's.

You know how I bang on and on about how the trans ideology is completely based in dishonesty?

Yeah.

Claiming absolute fiction in a court environment.

A male doctor claiming to be biologically female because that's the closest way they can get to making it make any sort of sense.

Dishonest, deceitful. But this is 'being your true self'.

He's trying to defend his crying to teacher about the 'mean girl'.

BU - I described as unpleasant and upsetting, not hostile

NC - from yr account of yr exchange with superfvisor, in October, 2 months later, you raise with supervisor, she agrees it was unpleasant. Fair to say that shows us that as far as you're concnered it wasn't good enough for SP to withdraw, you went to supervisor and implied she was a bigot

BU - not true, I don't know her reasons, we have regular meets with supervisor, I said I don't know her reasons, didn't call her a bigot, didn't speculate, I said it was unpleasant, it's upsetting whne somebody's assuming s'thing about you, especially when its' somethign unpleasant or incorrect or based on misinformation. At no point have I said to my supervisor and said SP is a bigot

He isn't coming across as honest.

I can't see Dr. U having a lengthy and fulfilling period of employment at this hospital after the Tribunal is over.

Sandie can't do anything right according to DU.

They were basically bitching about SP leaving the changing room without saying anything. I think we all know who the bullies are.

What should SP have done NOT to be 'unpleasant'?

'Your supervisor was happy to indulge your demand' - oooh, sizzle

I’ve been following this avidly and had to go for a smear this morning

The Physician’s Associate who performed it on me was a lovely young woman (asking for consent throughout each step, asked if I wanted a chaperone, providing me with privacy whilst I stripped my kecks off and telling me she would stop at any time if I felt uncomfortable)

I ended up ranting to her about the case and she was utterly horrified, she had no idea about it.

She said how wrong it is and, as a Muslim woman, how violated she’s feel if she’s removed her headscarf only to find a bloke in the CR as well as the rest of the privacy and dignity issues

Cos he's not.....he knows he's male, the judge knows he's male, everyone knows he's male...but we're forced to go along with this charade.

my community again

Stayed and submitted to getting unchanged in front of him.

Ideally, started a conversation about hair and makeup with him.

Or anywhere. Which is a waste of a med school place. Infuriating when so many bright motivated kids are currently waiting on offers, and some won't get one.

NC: Supervisor agreed it was 'unpleasant'

BU - yes, ask Kate for her response

NC - we see your supervisor happy to indulge your demands to the female CR. She agreed that withdrawing from the situation [inaudible]

NC - the consensus you reached with supervisor was that SP withdrawing herself from that siutaiton was unpleasant shows that you felt entitled to have SP there

BU - no, I felt someone assuming things about my community to be unpleasant. I said I wasn't going to escalate it, I don't think it's reasonable to expect her to be in a situation if she doesn't wish to be. In terms of attitudes towards transwomen is unfounded in reality but may be deeply felt, not for me to pry into what that is, if they want to explore through a professional or formal channel, that's up to them. Not inmy remit to investigate why coll doesn't want to share space with me, nor force her to share space, wheher it makes me upset is irrelevant.

Come on! He never said all this guff. I'll bet He just went to his supervisor and claimed Sandie was transphobic!

Why is the J not asking him to slow down?

As annoying as DU where is the employer in all this?

Why did no one support SP?

Surely by banging on about his community, he's making it clear that he is not part of the community of women?

I don't buy that the joint use of the changing room was a co-incidence. I believe Sandi became a focus and a target for his attentions.

So he doesn't want to speculate on what Sandie's motivation would be, but he was upset by it all the same. And he admits that this case is based on his interpretation of what her motivation was
And on top of that, would he like to clarify the reasons for which a woman would be allowed to leave the room, and a suitable demeanour and range of behaviours while she does so?

FFFS.

Can you self-ID into a different seniority? If not, why not since you can self-ID sex?

How can he say all this but deny he implied she was a bigot