Sex by deception

Temporaryusernamefortoday · 2025-01-15T21:08:21+00:00

I’m trying to understand the law. There have definitely been cases of women deceiving their partners that they were male and being prosecuted for it. How would it work if they were transgender and didn’t disclose? Surely the deception and therefore the crime, is the same?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/01/2025 01:17

There isn't a high profile case where a man identifying as a woman has been prosecuted for deceiving someone into a sexual act based on not disclosing that they are male, that I can think of. Probably because most of these males don't pass very well as women and so most sexual partners would be aware. But the principle is the same.

JellySaurus · 16/01/2025 05:15

This is one of the problems with this legislation. Having a GRC is essentially a permit to defraud.

Harassedevictee · 16/01/2025 06:08

It is still deception.

Consent is about honesty and both parties making a fully informed decision.

Bannedontherun · 16/01/2025 09:24

There was a case many years ago of a soldier being fooled because he only had sex with the deceiver in the dark in a van or car. Could not find it on google.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/01/2025 09:26

This is one of the problems with this legislation. Having a GRC is essentially a permit to defraud.

It is, but not a free permit to lie and deceive people into sex they would otherwise not consent to.

PrawnofthePatriarchy · 16/01/2025 10:10

It's being reported that an 18 year old was stabbed 14 times in a vicious planned attack in Harrow. The victim was a trans identifying male. The motive appears to be that he had performed oral sex on another teenage boy while presenting himself as female.

The attack is described as transphobic but I would say it was describing himself as female that set the whole thing off. If the other teen had turned him down for being male but female presenting that could be described as transphobic but misrepresenting himself as female is surely sex by deception - though this doesn't excuse the violence inflicted on him.

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/transgender-teenager-stabbed-14-times-by-snapchat-gang-for-lying-6cnx9m39s

spannasaurus · 16/01/2025 10:37

If the other teen had turned him down for being male but female presenting that could be described as transphobic

A man declining to have sex with another man is not transphobic

SerendipityJane · 16/01/2025 10:39

PrawnofthePatriarchy · 16/01/2025 10:10

It's being reported that an 18 year old was stabbed 14 times in a vicious planned attack in Harrow. The victim was a trans identifying male. The motive appears to be that he had performed oral sex on another teenage boy while presenting himself as female.

The attack is described as transphobic but I would say it was describing himself as female that set the whole thing off. If the other teen had turned him down for being male but female presenting that could be described as transphobic but misrepresenting himself as female is surely sex by deception - though this doesn't excuse the violence inflicted on him.

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/transgender-teenager-stabbed-14-times-by-snapchat-gang-for-lying-6cnx9m39s

Edited

The article is painfully tedious using "she" for the victim throughout ...

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/01/2025 10:45

Quite a lot of discussion on this thread, including about this recent case.

CPS change the proposed 'sex by deception re gender' legal guidance www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/5230327-cps-change-the-proposed-sex-by-deception-re-gender-legal-guidance?msgid=-5230327#-5230327

JellySaurus · 16/01/2025 10:51

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/01/2025 09:26

This is one of the problems with this legislation. Having a GRC is essentially a permit to defraud.

It is, but not a free permit to lie and deceive people into sex they would otherwise not consent to.

I don't disagree. But this is one of the conflicts inherent in this unethical legislation. It is a perfect example of the law being an ass.

JellySaurus · 16/01/2025 10:54

PrawnofthePatriarchy · 16/01/2025 10:10

It's being reported that an 18 year old was stabbed 14 times in a vicious planned attack in Harrow. The victim was a trans identifying male. The motive appears to be that he had performed oral sex on another teenage boy while presenting himself as female.

The attack is described as transphobic but I would say it was describing himself as female that set the whole thing off. If the other teen had turned him down for being male but female presenting that could be described as transphobic but misrepresenting himself as female is surely sex by deception - though this doesn't excuse the violence inflicted on him.

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/transgender-teenager-stabbed-14-times-by-snapchat-gang-for-lying-6cnx9m39s

Edited

I would guess this is one of the reasons you don't hear much sky heterosexual men being defrauded into gay sex: they cannot face up to what they have done or has been done to them, so don't report it. Or they respond with violence.

Harassedevictee · 16/01/2025 11:42

The violence is completely unjustified.

However, the sexual assault was also unjustified. The person assaulted gave consent to a female to give oral sex not a male.

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 16/01/2025 12:13

Straight men are always so laid back about other men performing sex acts on them without knowing that they're men.🙄

No one could have possibly predicted this outcome.

What a god awful story all round. Poor kid has listened to too much TWAW bullshit and believed every word.