This is why so many women voted Trump

[BabyLlamaZen]

I’m not saying it’s right, I’m not saying it’s worth the horrors of the Trump administration (and what other women’s rights will be abolished). However, I can also empathise. Books like this are everywhere in baby sections of bookshops in USA. My american friend is naturally more conservative than myself although hated Trump and didn’t vote for him previously (she abstained and then she went Biden although she says she seriously regrets) and this time she voted Trump. She said this stuff is now everywhere and it’s constant. She also showed me a baby’s ABC book which included B for bisexual (and literally then described it as people who are sexually attracted to either gender). For babies.

I don't know where to post this but JKR's response to all the tears and tantrums over the Trump win struck me as pure gold.

Lifted from the Spectator. This may come as highly unpleasant news to those celebs, who have to face to up to, not just a Trump presidency, but the awful realisation that they are neither as important, or as loved, as they think they are. Poor things.

To paraphrase JK Rowling’s perfect riposte to David Tennant: our thoughts and prayers are with the showbiz elite at this difficult time.

Don't you just love her

People can identify however they like, but they remain male or female. This is the issue. You cannot change sex, and sex matters in certain types of situation.

I think the images going around of Admiral Levine and Sam Brinton standing together is a good reminder for when people start to discuss other parties lies and capacity to overlook actions of people in government positions of influence.

Levine was celebrated as the first ‘female’ of that rank. Used the government position held to directly influence WPATH to remove age minimums for gender affirming treatments. That is just a couple.

Brinton stole women’s clothes and suitcases. Sure, Brinton is no longer in position however, I don’t believe that Brinton is jail despite being a repeat offender. And wearing a designer’s one off outfit publicly that was in one of the suitcases stolen. Her suitcase.

I think the Trump team, like everyone else, was expecting the election to be a very close-run thing possibly being won by tens of thousands of votes in swing states. Campaigning on trans issues as a proxy for identity politics in general, when the mood seemed to be against these, often bizarre, ideas, was a rational choice because the, potentially small, number of voters who could be shifted might make all the difference. In the end it wasn't decisive because the electorate shifted much more over the economy/inflation.

@Helleofabore can't agree more and as a US voter I find it even worse when people outside the US post memes about Trump voters like "I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people" or "They go low, we go high" or "Hate will never prevail" or talking about how Trump voters are racist, sexist poorly educated fascists and posting links to suicide hotlines for LGBT youth.

The blue collar, libertarian leaning town where I vote has seen little to no demographic change over the last 20 years, and in my voting lifetime it's gone Bush II, Obama, Romney, Clinton, Biden, and now Trump.

What they have seen in the last 4 years is toothpaste that used to cost $1.99 now costs $8, and now it's locked up behind glass in CVS because of shoplifting. If Kamala comes along and says "we're not going back!" a lot of people are thinking... why not, exactly?

I also can't emphasize enough how big the USA is and how far away places like Ukraine and Gaza feel when you can drive for two days and not leave the state. So arguments about how the world is less safe just don't land in the same way.

I made a complaint once about a book for children that was on sale in a Tate gallery shop. It was titled " It's not rude to be nude" or something similar. It showed illustrations of different body types - all naked; including black; white; brown; male; female; fat; thin; disabled...but also some bodies which looked to me to be purposefully ambiguous -as if they had breasts as well as a penis, and so on.....It gave me the creeps.

Hell...who needs abortion rights eh? He got rid of Roe v Wade...who knows what he and Vance will do now he's got unfettered power. One of his acolytes tweeted 'Your body, my choice' yesterday.

It's terrifying that women voted for Trump. But its even more terrifying that they felt they had no choice.

Where does it say that this is an official Democratic Party publication?

One of the factors that seems to have decided the election hasn't actually been swing voters.

Apparently LESS white men and women voted Trump this time. The only upswing in numbers was amongst Hispanic men and women.

The deciding factor seems more to be about turnout rather than swing voting.

Biden got substantially more votes than any other president. Preliminary estimates (as counting hasn't actually finished yet) show that Trump didn't beat Biden's popular vote total.

So Trump was better at getting the vote out and motivating voters to the polls than Harris was.

In other words Harris it's looking a lot like she lost because she didn't inspire democrat voters or she'd alienated democrat voters. So much of this smacks of disillusionment or wrong choice of candidate.

So while I don't think stuff like this changed people's minds about who to vote for, I do strongly suspect it may have had a bigger effect on the result than you give credit for because it enraged and motivated red voters to the polls whilst the vote of sane blue voters was depressed due to disillusionment because of a variety of reasons - stuff like the war in Israel, inflation, lying over Biden's health, a general lack of enthusiasm for Harris AND yes because of this issue.

A lot of the talk before the election was about white women in red states flipping democrat because of women's rights too. I think there's every chance that some wavered and considered it, but this issue may ultimately have persuaded them to stay put because the Dems would undermine women's rights in different, perhaps worse, ways in their mind.

We don't know. And we potentially won't ever properly know for sure because it's hard to pin this down in hard data.

What I am saying is that we can't dismiss the idea that this stuff didn't hugely affect the outcome of the election because it wasn't going to change anyone's already set minds on the subject, because the result isn't just about swing voters - we know that campaigns actually try and affect the vote by trying to motivate their own voters and depressing the opposition voters.

Looking at the data available this seems ultimately to be the key strategy the Trump campaign used. On voting day, Trump motivated voters on social media with claims of broken machines and election fraud which were widely shared and effective. I also have to say that dodgy poll in Iowa has a lot more questions to be asked about it than it might appear on the surface too.

Putting abortion front and centre was a big mistake.

Not all women are in favour of abortion for a start, and for many it is a theoretical issue rather than one that impacts them in their daily life, if at all in their whole life. And in some ways, even if you are pro choice it was a big turn off...because it subliminally suggets a rejection of the sorts of lives most women lead. Most women have children......they are not all "childless cat ladies" living in San Francisco or Boston with well paid corporate jobs........

There is a certain type of feminism which actually puts many people off - including many women. Women are not stupid, they are not going to vote for someone just because they are female - regardless of everything else. The emphasis on sex and race did the campaign no favours.

Why are you "terrified"? Isn't that is rather catastrophic or doom-laden way of perceiving the world

So you really think that this book is going to harm your child....but a rapist has your child's best interests at heart? Nearly 300,000 minors — the vast majority of them girls — were legally married in the US between 2000 and 2018, (unchained at last non profit report) child marriage is a serious issue but Maga conservatives have no problem with underage girls being forced into marriage to adult men. Choosing to not vote Democrat is a fair choice anyone can make. But don't pretend it's about caring for the children.

If it really does force discussion, it will be something at least. I have been surprised at the UK Labour MPs who have now found themselves in the party of power who seemed to never have understood that demonising people they didn’t agree with would bite them in the arse. That the people they denigrated would be people they needed to have delicate discussions with in the future. And why would those vilified by that politician want to find solutions with a person using that language?

Sure, if you are a person like Trump you think you can get away with it. And what does that then say about those doing the vilifying….?

He said that men are not participating in womens events in the Los Angeles Olympics.

Good enough for me

I think for many it's a form of rebellion.

A friends son in his 20s transitioned last year. Mum and Dad have just largely gone fine. Interestingly mum has actively said, "I've done my job to raise my children, what they do now is up to them". In a not my problem anymore fashion.

After just over a year of this, he's now decided the name they've spent months tripping over themselves to use isn't good enough and has changed his name again.

I know it's been changed but not what to. A mutual friend started talking to Dad when I was out and mentioned the son by the first name. Dad did not correct.

It's fairly obvious he's less than impressed and it's causing tension.

To my mind it's the son looking for attention or trying to wind them up for some reason and after not getting it initially, he's upped the anti to try and get a reaction out of them.

Strangely, it's a pattern of escalation that I have seen in my brother and in another individual. I can't say it's widespread but I do find it a curious observation.

This would fit with the goth / punk comparisons too.

It's not abortion. It's women miscarrying and dying because the doctors won't operate when there's still a foetal heartbeat and hundreds of situations like that.

I don’t even think it’s that deep, US is a deeply racist and mysognistic country. Lots of women have bought in to the cult of Trump and want a strong white, male president.

@Shortshriftandlethal I don't think this is borne out by the results at all. Propositions (is that the right word?) improving or protecting access to abortion have been passed in multiple states on the same ballot where Trump won the presidency. I would deduce from that that many voters do think access to abortion is important but prioritise getting it legally protected in their state rather than voting Democrat nationally. Or they don't think that a Democrat president can or will be able to get anything passed that protects access to abortion nationally. I think that's a rational view.

craftymam I was listening to a talk from a woman who was looking at all the periods of transient madness in history. Super interesting! I had no idea about it previously. Like contagious vagrancy, mass hysteria and multiple personality disorder

That does sound good. Do you recall who the speaker was, please?

andIsaid But the truth is we don't know how many people would have the issue in question influence their vote, because the push back against any conversation around it is so aggressive. Very few people discuss it in real life but most have strong opinions in private. In my experience anyway.

Preference falsification is very powerful

I don’t understand why trans ideology is associated with the political left.
It is based on a belief in sex role stereotypes which is a conservative position.

You seem to be making everything into a very stark either/or or a black/white polarity. People often vote, though, with a broader cultural image in mind.

Who is to say that a family with a daughter who is big into sports and who has been negatively impacted by the inclusion of males into her categories and competitions does not have women's issues, or fairness, in mind, for example? Or that a Christian, or any other family, cannot reject their children being told, or having it suggested to them that it is possible change sex?

I'm sure they can be against child marriage too.....but on a daily level in a situation they have either encountered themselves, or are aware of - that might not be the deciding factor in their vote. The issue of their daughter's school bathrooms are more pressing.

There seems to have been a broad swathe of Republican voters ( the issues will remain even when Trump has gone) from a wide demographic. People like Riley Gaines, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Megyn Kelly....as well as your traditional mid western voters. The motivations and reasons for voting a certain way are complex and multi-level, but often it comes down to a gut level decision.

Why have you crossed out one letter from the word PENIS and VAGINA, they are both perfectly acceptable biological/medical/physiological terms.

(not for use in a children's book though I agree)

It is because it is a part of progressive identity politics. The idea that we can be whatever we want and that some groups are more oppressed than others. That the aim of politics to is to liberate and make equal all people, and all categories of people.

@Shortshriftandlethal And in some ways, even if you are pro choice it was a big turn off...because it subliminally suggets a rejection of the sorts of lives most women lead. Most women have children

Not even sure what point you’re trying to make with this, most abortions are from women who already have other children.