Why do all trans discussions end in a bun fight?

[Name5]

I have a natal daughter who is a young adult. I try to keep an open dialogue with her as her thoughts are changing as she gets older.
She is not causing any discord to anyone. I try to help when desparate parents ask simple questions about their LGBTQ DC ( this week it was about getting a job). Within a few hours there are big fights re toilets and rape crisis centres. Yes these things are horrifying but every bloody thread gets high jacked with these points of law. There should be a subject category for parents of adult trans people. This would allow issues to be discussed without the OP being subjected to accusations of ideology or affirmation. I don't believe my DD is better as a male persona but I can't and won't bully her to accept my feelings override hers. She's still my DC and all subjects are open to reasonable and lawful discussion. MNHQ can you please list a new category so people don't feel attacked and bullied?

How? The point is that purpose of trans is to remove sex as a group and replace it with gender. This by default says that any reference to sex is 'anti-trans' therefore means that trans is actually fundamentally anti-woman because it removes the legal protection under the equality act of the category of sex.

Therefore trans is an anti woman movement or a mens rights activism because it removes the ability for women to defend themselves using the classification of sex whilst calling them bigoted for defending themselves.

That's not ok.

And ultimately in this, trans identity does not remove sex. Just the ability to talk about sex.

It can not be 'anti-trans' if you essentially are saying that women no longer have the right to name sex which still exist regardless of identity.

Sex continues to be relevant whether you like it or not.

You’ve literally been given examples of how a belief system - which no one has to believe in or adhere to if they don’t want to, like religion - is harmful and yet still the ‘yeah it’s anti trans’. With no explanation as to why.

Do you think some trans people don't follow this 'ideology'?

Because if not, and you think the ideology is destructive and harmful, ergo you think trans people themselves are destructive and harmful.

How could they not follow the ideology? How do you see that working @Blanketyre ?

Fair enough.
But that doesn’t make us ‘transphobic’ to talk about our cause.

Does it make you a misogynist because you don’t agree that women’s rights are being eroded? No, and it would be wrong to say that.

Name calling occurs on both sides but those that do it are part of the problem.

Literally impossible. That's the point.

Being Trans IS following an ideology.

How can you enter into a discussion about being trans and not even know this?!

What do you think being trans is?
According to Stonewall, you first need to accept that there are gender identities that match the two sexes.... would you agree with this?

You genuinely don't seem to know @Blanketyre !?

Cambridge what?

I wonder what it is that makes posters here so reluctant to face being transphobic or anti trans. It seems like a strange phenomenon to be able to happily attack trans people for being part of a destructive ideology and then innocently claim you aren't anti trans people. It's bizarre.

No one is attacking trans people. We are gender critical which is a belief protected by law. HTH

So no answer as to how believing that males should be classed as women isn't an ideology, value judgements on its destructive nature or not aside?

And I’m not sure why people think being university educated means their thinking can’t be challenged. It’s not the definitive marker they think it is. As in all walks of life there are plenty of examples of university educated people who useless - just look at many of the world leaders!

I presume it's because you realise that if you are open about your fear and loathing of trans people this 'discussion' space will be shut down.

We aren't antitrans.

We are saying that sex exists and we should be able to always defend on the basis of sex.

You seem to think this is antitrans despite the actual law.

Because it’s the same conversation.

Your daughter chooses to dress as a man. Fine. She’s still a woman. If people choose to address her as male then that’s fine. If people choose to address her as female then that’s also fine.

How someone chooses to dress shouldn’t have the power to alter their legal persona. A man dressing as a woman should not get chess to single sex spaces.

A parent whose child has started identifying as a therian who comes to MN for advice should be told about the possible negative aspects of the “lifestyle”. Someone whose child is thinking about socially transitioning should be told about the dangers of affirmation. Someone whose child is contemplating puberty blockers should be told about the lifelong ramifications. Someone whose child is applying for jobs and mentions they’re NB at the earliest possible opportunity should be told they may find it difficult to get a job.

It’s not a big fight or a pile on, it’s people who don’t accept that gender ideology is totally harmless. These points of law you have such disdain for are there to protect women and girls and by permitting the erosion of these rights by permitting men who dress as women into single sex spaces has to be part of the discussion. You can’t select which parts of gender ideology are acceptable and which aren’t. We can see what happens when children are affirmed in their chosen genders ad the lifelong impact it can have. I’ve been in this fight for a few years now, but if I were new to the table I would definitely want to know everything I could before making a decision.

We don’t need a new category. People get advice and if they don’t like it they can choose to ignore it.

Aren't you a bit embarrassed to say this when you literally can't say what you think trans means?

Why are you reluctant to say so? Do you think you might be wrong? I don't care if you're wrong, I'm trying to understand what you mean. Your definition of trans might include me, as I don't have a gender identity that i consider to match my sex.

But you won't say. Come on, get into it! Have a think about your own beliefs! If you thought that trans meant "wants to be the opposite sex" then just say so and we can commiserate with how confusing it can be!

😂😂😂😂 no pet. Try harder.

If by ‘trans’ you mean people who believe in this ideology, then why do you not care about the harms it does to them? The hugely increased suicide rate that result from ‘transition’ and living your life pursuing the unobtainable, the deaths and morbidities of surgeries with over 80% complication rates, the stopping of brain maturation of children and their reduction in IQ and osteopenia from puberty blockers, the sterilisation of children, the risk inappropriate medical treatments from lying about your sex on medical records, the crushed ribs from binders, the lack of safeguarding on helplines and websites despite the over-representation of sex offenders within the ‘trans’ population?

Imagine coming onto a board and trying to persuade people that you know their thoughts, feelings and beliefs better than they do. Bizarre.

Why it's a statement of fact and a legally protected one at that.
If you honestly believe that not following your ideology is all it takes to be anti trans might I kindly suggest that you educate yourself on the law and come to terms with the fact that someone disagreeing with your ideology due to the harms it heeps on women, children, young adults and lgb people are entitled to do so without your false accusations and smears.
Edited for typos

I would class it as a reasonable comment.

When you can actually describe what being transphobic and anti-trans entails, maybe posters will be able to face if they are or not, by your non definition.

Can you not see how the ideology is destructive though?
Telling children they can literally change sex?
Telling women they have no right to single sex services?
Telling young lesbians they must do dick or they’re transphobes?
Taking vulnerable autistic girls and telling them that as they’re uncomfortable with bodily changes at puberty and not fitting in with their NT peers that they must be boys?
It’s mind boggling that so many people can wilfully ignore these things in order to cling to “their truth”.

You do realise that actually it's because as mothers we very very much care about the wellbeing of our children caught up in this ideology that we fight against it? No fear or loathing.