Why do all trans discussions end in a bun fight?

[Name5]

I have a natal daughter who is a young adult. I try to keep an open dialogue with her as her thoughts are changing as she gets older.
She is not causing any discord to anyone. I try to help when desparate parents ask simple questions about their LGBTQ DC ( this week it was about getting a job). Within a few hours there are big fights re toilets and rape crisis centres. Yes these things are horrifying but every bloody thread gets high jacked with these points of law. There should be a subject category for parents of adult trans people. This would allow issues to be discussed without the OP being subjected to accusations of ideology or affirmation. I don't believe my DD is better as a male persona but I can't and won't bully her to accept my feelings override hers. She's still my DC and all subjects are open to reasonable and lawful discussion. MNHQ can you please list a new category so people don't feel attacked and bullied?

How ironic.

Indeed

No, I'm not.

Can you explain what you think 'pro-women' means rather than random guesses at what I think? Then I can see where we might agree or disagree.

Before that can be answered we need to be clear what you mean by woman

do you mean adult human female

or do you mean adult human female + men who say they feel like a woman (however it is that all women are meant to feel)

I can understand it, and I went to Cambridge, thank you.

Liz Truss went to Oxford.

So you’re pro women who agree with you? Not all women?

Like you then 🙄

I'm a woman and I don't agree with most of the anti trans sentiment on here. OP you would have been better to start this in another section of the board, although there is no way of having a civilised discussion about trans people on mumsnet at all.

Do you also understand the only reason you got to go to Cambridge is because of the actions of generations of women before you campaigning for the right for women to have an education.

See Afghanistan for an example of how things use to be in this country, over there you wouldn't be aloud to speak let alone have a 'cause'.

How? You can't change sex. Even if you believe in gender...

Indeed

Interesting answer @WaitingForMojo because obviously I think I'm not one of those women who work against women's rights, because I care about my and other women's and girls' sex based rights. Can you explain how you evidently think that is incorrect?

For someone who thinks MN is the epitome of transphobia and that the sex and gender discussions here are not pro-women (because you know the difference of course), you don’t appear to be able to articulate how and why. And you went to Cambridge no less! (Not sure why you felt the need to point that out).

Nonsense, it is not ‘their very existence’ that causes harm. It is the ideology they uphold and espouse that causes harm.

Op I have a young trans relative. Their health and the health of their trans partner has been ruined because they were led into this dangerous ideology. The trans partner is unable to work full time. If your daughter is not yet showing the damage this does to young women then she will and possibly soon. The best support you can give your child is to get her out of the cult. I know that's extremely difficult and you may never manage it but whenever your child supports this cult and encourages anyone else along the same road then she is doing harm to other young people.

Women generally wish to protect children from harm. Trans ideology harms children.

What 'anti-trans' sentiment? Can you give any examples.

I think it has come to something when a statement such as "women need female only spaces in some circumstances" is seen as transphobic rather than pro women.

FWIW I also believe that trans people need and deserve specialist spaces in some circumstances as well.

How do you know the OPs dd espouses any ideology?

Or is it just because she's trans, so according to you must uphold an ideology, in which case then yes, it's just because she exists.

How can someone be non binary but also transgender? Beside the point I know. Reality is you posted a thread in AIBU, someone could post about donating £1 billion to a brilliant charity and there'd be people saying they hadn't done enough, they were awful people, the charity spent 1p on something they shouldn't have 20 years ago.

Oh dear. Really?

If you are a regular poster on this board and have convinced yourself that there is no anti trans sentiment, then being so online must have altered your brain chemistry.

you don’t appear to be able to articulate how and why.

This is literally always the case.
Never want to actually say "oh, you're trying to understand what I think, well, I'll set that out so we can discuss it, and I'm confident in my opinions, so analysing it is helpful to the discussion and hopefully reading a shared understanding".

It's always "i know what you think, I'm not telling you what it is but it's wrong, and no I don't need to explain to anyone because I already know I'm right, and if gay people are saying that's a homophobic belief they're wrong"

At least a Cambridge- educated person wouldn't do this, or give circular answers to what a woman is though!

If she believes herself to be male or requires other ppl to go along with that - to lie about her sex and use male pronouns- then yes she does uphold an ideology

wear what you like, have whatever name you want but no one should be compelling other ppl to go along with lies to validate their ‘identity’

im childless - if I insisted that I identified as a mother & demanded ppl call me a mother even though I’m not, ppl wouldn’t go along with it so why is this so different?

This isn't AIBU

Pointing out your expertise to try and intimidate others with status is a propaganda technique. It's to try and demonstrate authority over others.

That's why it was used.

But gender is a social construct, it doesn't 'exist' as an absolute like biological sex does. You can't 'change' something that doesn't actually exist unless you prescribe to the ideology that a) gender is an actual thing and b) that it's possible to change gender (and often this is purposefully conflated with sex which adds an extra layer of ideology as no one can change biological sex even with surgery etc).

Believing biological males can be considered women is an ideology, @Blanketyre and one many people don't share.

The thread OP is moaning about was.