Huge argument with best friend about the boxers. Devestated.

[Patty78]

My best friend of 30 years has called me stupid, cruel, a fucking terf, a numpty, and an idealogical bigot. He also said he hopes my 7 year old daughter doesn't end up with XY chromosomes and I have to tell her she wasn't a real woman. Who does that?
I'm so so so upset. I went through my points clearly and calmly. I pointed him in the direction of Andrew Gold's interview with a developmental biologist. I said she made all the points much much better than I could.
I said I didn't really know what the situation was with this particular boxer because nobody could seem to agree. My only point was that if she is XY and went through male puberty, then some sort of policy should be in place. I also said that it wasn't fair for her to be in the limelight like this and that basically, it needs sorting at an administrative level.
The vitriol from him has really shocked me. I'm in tears. He's talking about my cruelty to this boxer (who he says was born and raised a woman and it doesn't matter about the chromosomes and would I also stop basketball players from growing too tall) whilst also being extraordinarily nasty to me.
Now I'm wondering if I've got this wrong.
The reason I have gender-critical views is because I want to protect my daughter. But I'm pretty isolated, on my own... and now I'm really really sad.

Tbh OP, if this was on the Relationships board, posters would be explaining to you that you've been in an abusive relationship, gaslit by a man exerting coercive control to the extent that you've accepted his abusive behaviour as the norm.
Anyone who verbally abuses you as he has done is not a good man and certainly nobody who should be around your 7 year old DD. He's not interested in debate and discussion - it's just an opportunity to abuse you.
Maybe time to talk to your sister again?:
"My sister has always been able to see through his bullshit. She can't believe I still try to maintain this relationship"

Exactly what my sister says.

It's nothing to do with homophobia. VERY different, And if you could think beyond the level of superficiality, you'd get this. A lot of the women opposing the misogynist T movement are those who marched WITH the gay rights movement and were active n it. People like you are sleepwalking. Enablers of both women's and gay rights that have been gained very recently going back down the pan because you don't understand them and are complacent. Again, you've been had. You're helping our rights go backwards, not forwards.

He said my type of feminism is leaving that boxer behind. That I'm saying that an XY woman isn't a woman and that it's disgusting.

Oh for goodness sake! 🤦🏻‍♀️ How can feminism even mean anything if it's not about women? How are feminists wrong for defending women who are being hurt and excluded by a male in a female category? How?

Lots of people get "left behind" in high-level sport, for all kinds of reasons, like they failed a weight test or a drug test (even innocently because of something they ate or a medicine), they got an injury or they just weren't good enough. There's this "Michael Phelps" argument that sport isn't fair anyway. So it's fine for females to lose out to or be injured by males, because hey sport is unfair! But if you want to exclude someone from a category they are NOT IN, then it's all poor male boxer! It's not fair and you're a disgusting bully!

All I ask of people on this thread who agree with OP's friend. Please just make a logical case and lay it out clearly, addressing these points. A logical, rational argument that holds together. Because "they've always been a woman because I say so" isn't that.

Yes, exactly.
You really should be angry that this fool has spoken to you like that.

OP,
This is clearly a person of limited intelligence, I wouldn't bother arguing with him I would just shut him down and humor him and then either
1-back away slowly until you have erased him from your life.
Or
2-keep him on but in a limited way and don't revisit these issues.

Hear, hear!
He was never worthy of you.

It doesn't feel like it now, but you are well rid of him.

@letsjustdothis how embarrassing for you to believe... I'm cringing on your behalf.

Should have walked away from the friendship when he told you you were “too fat”.

I think when people start throwing offensive slurs at you because you disagree on something is when they know they’re on shaky ground in a discussion and are annoyed about it. Name calling = they’ve lost the argument - and know it.

"He's on the side of the boxers BECAUSE HE KNOWS THEY ARE MALE"

Arguments like this are very reductionist and misandrist.

The op said her friend always stands up for the underdog. He sees her as a woman who has subsequently found she has a DSD but as can clearly be seen from her interviews has always, and continues to, see herself as a woman. Statistically she is part of a DSD subgroup which is exceedingly rare, subject a pile on from lots of high profile powerful women.

The op is GC. The fact that the boxer has a DSD is irrelevant. He is a man , part of the patriarchy, hence can never be an oppressed minority therefore a misogynist and a cheat who takes pride in beating up women to win a gold medal.

Man sides with other men rather than with you. I'm afraid when push comes to shove most men, even the ones we think are our allies, side with their own. In his case he sounds quite unpleasant to begin with and his new found 'feminism' flows directly from that - he's delighting in the literal and figurative beating down of women.

Chanel your sadness, shaking and upset into rage. Get right back in his face, metaphorically speaking, and tell him you always knew he was a superficial sexist shit but you had hoped his need to protect his daughters would open his eyes.
As instead he’s chosen to side with a newcomer to boxing whose chosen to cheat women who’ve trained years for this opportunity.

You've accepted his rage against you and let him get away with so much shit. Give it back at him with knobs on.

Exactly this, @hihelenhi.

As to the post above, the world is indeed moving on. The landscape in the wake of the Cass report is very different from the one before it. The tide is turning fast on this ideology, and that's mainly in view of the growing realization of how many people have been actively harmed by it.

This was never about everyone having the opportunity to present as they wish without fear of reprisal, abuse or discrimination. If it had been, I'd have been the first to 'ally' with it (noting that presenting as a woman and strutting around in fetish gear are two entirely different propositions' the latter being just as inappropriate for a woman as it is for a trans woman).

We are talking about contact sports: women punched in the head by natal males. This isn't just women's sports that are at risk: although that alone would be bad enough. It's their lives.

As for Cass, it's about the lives of distressed adolescents committing to a course of treatment that will affect, for life, their sexual function, fertility, potentially bone density and structure, and with possible other long-term results which haven't even manifested yet. This was nothing short of medical experimentation on children. Yet it's Hilary Cass who now can't safely use public transport.

There need to be questions - serious questions - as to how such as state of affairs was ever allowed to come about in the first place.

It's OP's friend who is the bigot here.

@Walkden the OP describes herself as always standing up for the underdog, not him.

Your sister has the measure of this awful man. Everything new you tell us about him just underlines more his toxicity and abusive nature. You deserve better.

Ain't that the truth!
Members of the patriarchy understand very well that it's in their best interest to always uphold and support the patriarchy.

I'd personally just remove myself from his presence on a permanent basis.

You can't reason with behaviour this unreasonable. The phrase 'never wrestle with a pig' jumps to mind. You both get covered in shit and the pig enjoys it.

Are you ready to listen to all that your sister thinks of him and why? I strongly suspect she’s held a lot back from you.

What would people genuinely do if this became apparent with their own daughters? Kids who have been raised female and then have a genetic rarity? Do people think that people raised like this should now be men?

That sounds satisfying in theory but it's probably safer to just quietly distance and cut off.

He always said that I was "the one" and he should have been with me. But I was too fat for him.

This kind of man is always trying to simultaneously neg and flatter women, encouraging them to think the idea that a man might have been attracted to them makes them worthy, but their failings make them not quite worthy enough. It's designed to hoodwink women into thinking men's attention and approval is what matters.

Until you wake up and think "hang on what a rude up-himself twat!" You're already woken up OP. You feel the way you do about the boxer situation because you do understand the reality of being a woman. Seeing through this arsehole is a logical next step. It's him who's lost a friend worth having. Not you. It's painful after such a long time but you were right to stand your ground and he's shown himself for what he is.

As I said on my (now apparently deleted naughty step) comment, I would be thinking of this man exactly as you would someone who's broken up with you and is being a shit about it. I think this sounds like a longer-term issue about your friendship than just a disagreement about the boxers, and that he's been disrespectful to you for a long while. I know it feels awful but nobody needs friends like that and you've done nothing wrong. Hold your head up high.

I agree with you

he hopes my 7 year old daughter doesn't end up with XY chromosomes
@Patty78
He has phrased it in a way which implies that her chromosomes might switch from XX to XY
Do you think this man believes that her chromosomes might change, that your daughter might truly 'end up' with XY chromosomes?
Or is he saying that she might be revealed to have XY chromosomes?

Obviously it's still a horrible thing to say, but his phrasing suggests that he lacks any scientific understanding.

What would people genuinely do if this became apparent with their own daughters? Kids who have been raised female and then have a genetic rarity? Do people think that people raised like this should now be men?

It must be very difficult and as there are many different DSDs, it probably depends on various things and there are various ways of approaching it. Just as people have to deal with other difficult health situations and questions of identity of various kinds – they need support and advice and have to find a way. I'm not underestimating at all how hard that must be.

However, if a child assumed to be female turned out to be male and had a male puberty, even if they were my own child, I would not say they should compete in a female sporting category. Other people matter too.