Huge argument with best friend about the boxers. Devestated.

[Patty78]

My best friend of 30 years has called me stupid, cruel, a fucking terf, a numpty, and an idealogical bigot. He also said he hopes my 7 year old daughter doesn't end up with XY chromosomes and I have to tell her she wasn't a real woman. Who does that?
I'm so so so upset. I went through my points clearly and calmly. I pointed him in the direction of Andrew Gold's interview with a developmental biologist. I said she made all the points much much better than I could.
I said I didn't really know what the situation was with this particular boxer because nobody could seem to agree. My only point was that if she is XY and went through male puberty, then some sort of policy should be in place. I also said that it wasn't fair for her to be in the limelight like this and that basically, it needs sorting at an administrative level.
The vitriol from him has really shocked me. I'm in tears. He's talking about my cruelty to this boxer (who he says was born and raised a woman and it doesn't matter about the chromosomes and would I also stop basketball players from growing too tall) whilst also being extraordinarily nasty to me.
Now I'm wondering if I've got this wrong.
The reason I have gender-critical views is because I want to protect my daughter. But I'm pretty isolated, on my own... and now I'm really really sad.

Can you explain what you think is "phobic" or the equivalent of racism/homophobia about understanding the reality and facts (not to mention the history of our rights) here? What are the "old fashioned" views you imagine we're espousing?

No they shouldn't now have to be men but they also should not be competing with women in sports.

Fair. Would you change her pronouns like a lot of people have done for the female boxer?

You should get him to listen to the interview. I watched it last night and the woman is clearly exceptionally well educated on the matter, and a scientist!! She spoke so clearly it was hard to argue with her. I felt at times she felt guilty for saying facts as she was softly spoken, her manner felt apologetic. The matter is about biological issues, not trans issues. Excellent interview in my opinion. He doesn't sound like a true friend.

That's so sad. I think there's 2 types: misogynists, and those who have been brainwashed to not think. Unfortunately it sounds like he's just a misogynist from your posts. I had lost hope with DP for years, but recently had a heated argument about the boxers but this time i walked him through each of the arguments (I'm not very good at debating) and he eventually saw sense (for now). But it's hard from them to retain that view as all the left wing news is spouting nonsense over and over again. It's brain washing.

I lost my best friend to this lunacy a while back. I grieved it... longstanding closeness but now i feel if she can think I'm evil for my views then I'm better off without the friendship. I feel for you but honestly you're better off without it.

In holiday at the mo and had a row in a bar in portugal with an English bloke whilst the women's boxing was on last night. He swore blind those bloke are women.

I initially thought it was a jocular exchange but it got unpleasant very quickly! I said to him, it's interesting how it's always the men telling women what a woman is.

Also, seen any muslim women doing this ever?!

Even if he means they find out later, he is still showing his ignorance. We'd pick up internal testes at the 20wk scan in the UK and other developed countries. There is a reason all the DSD athletes are from LMIC.

You may have a shared past with your friend, but you've had your blinkers on. You're too fat and his partner earns too much? He's happy for men to beat up women and you're the bigot for questioning him?

He's exactly the wokey blokey Victoria Smith is talking about here-
https://thecritic.co.uk/lefty-mens-failures-have-radicalised-women/

*I agree with your friend and I'm a woman.

I think anyone who thinks otherwise is very old fashioned.

The next generation are all going to be embarrassed that you had these views, in the same way you're embarrassed that your grandparents' generation were homophobic.

The world is moving on, deal with it*

This post is completely devoid of any sense, logic, evidence or rational argument whatsoever. What do you actually mean? How exactly does understanding what male and female mean make someone homophobic? How is allowing males into women's sports so that ultimately only males will ever win, "moving on"? How is wanting female to have an equal chance to compete "old-fashioned"?

You do know that "progressive" gender theorists and transactivists are opposed to same-sex relationships, right? They hold that if you're a lesbian you have to accept TW as sexual partners, even if they have fully intact male bodies, and if as a lesbian you say you are only attracted to other females, you're a bigot and a nazi? They are actively anti-lesbian and gay males are also meant to accept trans men, though this isn't pushed as aggressively (I guess they treat the sexes differently, who'd have guessed eh).

Haven't you ever wondered why so many TERFS are left-wing feminists and lesbians? Hmmmmmmm?

This is exactly right.

Brothers can be utter dicks as well.

Thank you.
I'd say it was ok for them to to be referred to as she etc (but that's just off the top of my head)

Nobody said the boxer was trans. They are male and males don't belong in women's boxing

This.
It doesn't matter what topic you were discussing.
If he disagreed, he could have listened to why you thought that and put forward his reasons for his different opinion and you both could have discussed it rationally.

Instead he just resorted to name calling and called you "stupid, cruel, a fucking terf, a numpty, and an idealogical bigot."

Friends don't do that.

I agree with previous posters, it does feel as if this bloke was waiting for an opportunity to have a go at you. Why was he not able to disagree agreeably?

My friend has just had a massive argument with her bearded leftie brother about this exact same issue. Basically it doesn't affect men one iota and they get to be smug self righteous pillocks.

Instead he just resorted to name calling and called you "stupid, cruel, a fucking terf, a numpty, and an idealogical bigot."*

Friends don't do that.*

Agreed - and nor do people who know what they're talking about and have any evidence or convincing arguments.

I believe it was Germaine Greer who said that women have no idea how much men hate them. We are certainly seeing evidence of it in the Olympic female boxing horror.

Genuinely think the Andrew Gold interview with Emma Hilton should be a must watch for everyone.

Just because a newer generation believes something more than an older generation doesn’t mean it’s progressive. It’d be great if that was always the case but just look through history.

Thinking that the categories of man and woman are valid due to feelings or social roles is so backwards. What is the point of dividing people into those categories?

Hey OP, I'm very sorry your friend turned out to be a weapons grade arsehole. He's been waving his little red flags for a while hasn't he? Time to fuck him off and move on. Go have a nice pub tea with your sister and talk about what a cnut he is until it's all off your chest, then forget him. You are better than that friendship.

The boxers are male and you are not in the wrong. The propaganda machine is powerful unfortunately.

Lots of the anger we are seeing is from the sheer cognitive dissonance of people desperately trying to believe that obviously male individuals are female in order to be on the "Good People" side. The fear of knowing they are wrong somewhere deep down makes them lash out. But it's no excuse for being so nasty to a friend of 30 years, that's just grim behaviour and not forgivable.

It's not easy to end such a long friendship but it's time. As others have said, do you want your daughter to hear his views?

If a friend had spoken to me like that there would already be an effigy of them with several pins in it.

I think this would be the right place to post the immortal words of my DH when I was baffled by all this:

Men have a seemingly limitless ability to empathize with other men