Huge argument with best friend about the boxers. Devestated.

[Patty78]

My best friend of 30 years has called me stupid, cruel, a fucking terf, a numpty, and an idealogical bigot. He also said he hopes my 7 year old daughter doesn't end up with XY chromosomes and I have to tell her she wasn't a real woman. Who does that?
I'm so so so upset. I went through my points clearly and calmly. I pointed him in the direction of Andrew Gold's interview with a developmental biologist. I said she made all the points much much better than I could.
I said I didn't really know what the situation was with this particular boxer because nobody could seem to agree. My only point was that if she is XY and went through male puberty, then some sort of policy should be in place. I also said that it wasn't fair for her to be in the limelight like this and that basically, it needs sorting at an administrative level.
The vitriol from him has really shocked me. I'm in tears. He's talking about my cruelty to this boxer (who he says was born and raised a woman and it doesn't matter about the chromosomes and would I also stop basketball players from growing too tall) whilst also being extraordinarily nasty to me.
Now I'm wondering if I've got this wrong.
The reason I have gender-critical views is because I want to protect my daughter. But I'm pretty isolated, on my own... and now I'm really really sad.

If he doesn't treat women with respect, then surely you're better off without him.. Don't overthink it, just block him forevermore - your daughter doesn't need a man like him in her life.

If you're that close I'm sure you will make up. I don't understand why people get so angry about things that don't affect them. Hope you're ok. Try not to catastrophise the argument x

Same here, I honestly do not understand why the level of vitriol is so explosively high on this.

He talks to you like this because you're a woman. He doesn't care about the female boxers because they are women.

Whatever purpose you have been serving for this man, stop it now. He doesn't respect you, your daughter or any other females.

He's just said me and JK Rowling don't get to decide what a woman is.

But he (a man!) does?!

And he’s self-identifying as a feminist too. A red flag. Never trust a man who says he’s a feminist. They nearly always appropriate the label to gaslight you while doubling down on their misogyny.

I've been there, albeit over the Scottish rapist, yes really.
It hurts, it's shit. I lost a few longstanding friends, I've never backed down though, and I've found women online, and in real life who are much more knowledgeable and supportive, and you will too.

My dh is insisting the boxers are female and tried to shut down a discussion this morning. I was so disappointed in him and angry that I don't get to have an opinion. Thinks I should stop going on social media! Maybe he should try some research!! Fucking pissed off today. He also believes Caster Semenya is female. I could cry 😢

His JKR comment likely indicates that he sits on social media seething about women he thinks are "terfs" and being furious at whatever the "terfs" are saying.

...in the past, he's not treated women with respect.
There you are, then.
And now he's calling you names because you can see past his pseudo-feminism, you've known him for decades and you're not bolstering his new self-image.
It must be pretty upsetting for you to be subjected to such nastiness after 30 years of friendship. My sympathy.

Op he is a misogynist. Plain and simple. I'm a lefty and lefty men can be the worst ! Also look up the Communist Party - the ultimate lefties- total terfs! And what has this got to do with trans anyway ?( Not you Op, just some of the dialogue using the trans argument in this case ?) This and same sex spaces has really brought all the misogynists out on the open. Sadly, several male and female friends don't speak to me because of these issues including my ever so "be kind "brother and his wife. Not very kind to the women athletes who face injury or even death after years of training eh? You stick to your ground! He's a twat!

I'm sorry to read this.
It's not the disagreement I would have a problem with, it's the way he has disagreed and how rude he has been to you.
I have friends who think trans women are women. We avoid the topic and are still friends.
I could not be friends with someone who has spoken to you the way he did. And what a low blow about "hoping" your DD does not end up XY? I would find that unforgiveable.

Welcome to the world of so many left-wing men.

God, if he's not treated women with respect, wtf are you expecting him to now?

He's on the side of the boxers BECAUSE HE KNOWS THEY ARE MALE.

He's shouting at you BECAUSE HE KNOWS YOURE FFMALE.

Ffs, drop him like a stone. He's not the person you've dreamed he is. He's a common misogynist who knows exactly what sex people are and is happy to punch you in the face, verbally, for daring to disagree with his fake narrative.

Block.

He's a bully, OP. It's really that simple. If he didn't have this issue to bludgeon you with, it would be something else. You might want to examine why you haven't seen this sooner. Surely this isn't the only time he's been a bully.

I agree with your friend and I'm a woman.

I think anyone who thinks otherwise is very old fashioned.

The next generation are all going to be embarrassed that you had these views, in the same way you're embarrassed that your grandparents' generation were homophobic.

The world is moving on, deal with it.

You’re really not speaking out for the underdog here and I’m with your friend. And before anyone asks, I’m a cis woman.

This boxer isn’t trans. She’s never been anything other than a woman.

Remember your male friend has literally less skin this game than you do.

You're not in the wrong OP. If someone is technically male, even if they think they are a woman (or grew up thinking they were, which can happen with some DSDs) and has the advantage conferred by male puberty, it is simply unfair for them to be in the women's category. That's why we have women's categories - so that women can play sport and get to compete and win.

Same as weight categories and age categories. You don't have boxing that allows anyone of any weight or age to fight anyone else because then only one demographic could ever prevail.

What absolutely bizarre about this crossover from trans "allyship" to trying to defend male boxers in women's categories, is their arguments are contradictory. So someone was thought (incorrectly) to be female at birth, grew up being seen as female (possibly) and has female on their passport. So that makes them a woman? But a person who was thought (correctly) to be male at birth, grew up as a boy including male puberty, and has M on their passport, can be as much a woman as any other, just by saying so? Does what you are "assigned at birth" matter or not?

I really think the thought process in these people's heads is something along the lines of "oh no oh no, women are saying someone claiming to be a woman is really male/a man.... and when women do that it's bigoted and wrong and they must be punished and I have to take the other side to show I'm a good person!!! Quick think of/copy some specious arguments and berate any woman who thinks otherwise!"

In other words this whole movement has successfully convinced a whole ton of ostensibly well-meaning, do-gooder type (often "lefty") people that caring that female people exist and matter as a category is wrong and any woman who thinks that way must be ostracised. And for many men, that unleashes a deep, often repressed feeling of superiority and resentment towards women that they now feel justified in indulging. I think a lot of people don't have a full awareness of those motivations though. They just jostle to be on the "righteous" side and feel good about themselves without thinking it through.

Sorry it's so awful for you and it's damaged a friendship like this. I think that's happened to a lot of people with friends, family members, spouses etc. But understanding the reality of sex is not morally wrong and I am convinced this mad moment in history will pass. It's taking its time but it will. Reality has a way of asserting itself in the end.

If it's old-fashioned to not want men beating up women, in the boxing ring or elsewhere, then I'm glad to be living in the past.

Disagree. I have a close family member who’s become terfy and it’s impossible to maintain a relationship.

I bet she's pretty pleased about that, too.

I had a disagreement with one of my close friends over the boxing. She knows my views about protecting women's sport, but we don't generally discuss it. It came up over the boxing though, and she was very much "be kind, they're women" etc etc. I disagreed, we changed topic and moved on. Friends are allowed to disagree about controversial things, and still treat each other with respect.

I know it must be heartbreaking to lose such a long friendship, but I don't think I could be friends with someone who spoke to me like that and who holds those kind of views. I agree with pp that the whole woke-bro act is just a cover for his misogyny.

Thank you, everyone. Yes, what he said about my daughter was particularly awful. A 7-year-old child. He's got two daughters himself. We had a fallout years ago because I sided with his first wife during their split. He now has a kid with another woman who earns three or four times more than him. Last time I saw him, he said he didn't like it. My sister has always been able to see through his bullshit. She can't believe I still try to maintain this relationship. She won't speak to him. But he's been like a brother to me. We grew up together. Moved abroad together. We were like a team. It was something really special.
It makes me feel like it's not worth fighting for. Being a gender-critical feminist, I mean. Maybe I should just keep my thoughts to myself. I've already had to hide my opinion professionally. I can't lose my already paltry income.

Funny how so many men suddenly feel so sorry for a woman because of all the comments about her yet they couldn't give a shit about the threats and comments aimed at JKR and many many other women.

You agree with how her friend spoke to her? Insults, arrogant belittling, bringing her daughter into the argument. You're okay with that?