Huge argument with best friend about the boxers. Devestated.

[Patty78]

My best friend of 30 years has called me stupid, cruel, a fucking terf, a numpty, and an idealogical bigot. He also said he hopes my 7 year old daughter doesn't end up with XY chromosomes and I have to tell her she wasn't a real woman. Who does that?
I'm so so so upset. I went through my points clearly and calmly. I pointed him in the direction of Andrew Gold's interview with a developmental biologist. I said she made all the points much much better than I could.
I said I didn't really know what the situation was with this particular boxer because nobody could seem to agree. My only point was that if she is XY and went through male puberty, then some sort of policy should be in place. I also said that it wasn't fair for her to be in the limelight like this and that basically, it needs sorting at an administrative level.
The vitriol from him has really shocked me. I'm in tears. He's talking about my cruelty to this boxer (who he says was born and raised a woman and it doesn't matter about the chromosomes and would I also stop basketball players from growing too tall) whilst also being extraordinarily nasty to me.
Now I'm wondering if I've got this wrong.
The reason I have gender-critical views is because I want to protect my daughter. But I'm pretty isolated, on my own... and now I'm really really sad.

Oh, right, so he, a man, gets to decide what a woman is, does he? 🙄 All these men are misogynists. Their ire is fed by a burning, if usually hidden, hatred of women.

Either cut him out of your life completely, or tell him he’s wrong and you’re shocked he holds such regressive, conservative views about women. Also, explain that while male people with DSDs that mean they’ve gone through a male puberty are entitled to ‘live as women’ socially, with regard to sports they don’t qualify for female sports due to reasons of fairness.

You might also like to lead him onto the topic of CS, whom I’m sure he’ll assure you lives like a woman too, and then you can show him the photos of them clearly not.

Being tall is a variant of being a man or a women. Being a man is not a variant of woman.

He mentioned Michael Phelps and lactic acid. I don't even know anything about it.

Michael Phelps also is a variation of being a man. He does not feel the same pain as other swimmers so that is an advantage but not so much as to make him a cheat.

I've said this before, generally black people have a bigger lung capacity than white people who have a bigger lung capacity than Asian people.

This is why sprinters tend to be black, but it is a tendency. It is not enough of a difference for the Olympics to segregate on race.

Most sports segregate or sex because the difference is huge.

Have a look at this.

Does he realise he can have an 'F' put on his passport if he asks nicely and has a letter from his GP?

More evidence, not that you need it, your exfriend does.

For anyone who didn't see this humorous piece on another thread, it explains everything well.

n

"For anyone who didn't see this humorous piece on another thread, it explains everything well."

Except for the part where this is all about trans athletes and neither of these boxers is trans..😂

This morning he wrote to me again to tell me that all I had was a video shared by terfs. He'd watched a bit of it and it hadn't changed his mind one bit. That boxer is a biological female and shame on me for wanting her banned. He then likened it to certain intellectuals justifying what the nazis were doing during the war. He said he agreed with me about male rapists going into female prisons, but that this was so wrong. He also said not to write back to him because I was never going to change his mind.
So, I didn't. I've blocked him on everything.
But I'm still really upset. I really did have some of the best times of my life with him.
Our relationship has been fragile. We didn't talk for a few years. We were back on track, though. But I think it's a weird love-hate thing he has with me. It's a pattern
He'll leave me gushing messages saying how much I've brought to his life and how I'm the best person he's ever known... and how I'm the best friend he's ever had and the funniest person he's ever known (and there were some really good times) but then there have been giant rows in the past. Usually about me pointing out that he's being unkind. To girlfriends/mother of his child. They usually involved money as well. He is very, very entitled.
We saw each other at Christmas (we now live a long way from each other). I met his new wife and child. It was all very emotional.
And now, some random boxer's chromosomes have caused all this. I just can't brlieve it.
I'm going to try to be strong. Like I said I would in my last post. But I'm so sad. I think it is the sunken cost fallacy. So much of my life shared with him. This is what I need to get over.
What is really baffling, is that I said I DID NOT know the sex of this boxer. All I said was that in light of the controversy, perhaps the policy should be looked at. If she is a woman and didn't go through male puberty, fair enough. But there's something there, isn't there? One organisation is saying she's XY, another is saying she has F on her passport.
He's making out that I'm a psycho conspiracy theorist. Like I'm a cruel person who suddenly has decided to pick on this woman.

'He's not treated women with respect.'

Except the male one, obviously

Anyway, if he doesn't treat women with respect you don't need him around your daughter so you're well rid.

“He then likened it to certain intellectuals justifying what the nazis were doing during the war. He said he agreed with me about male rapists going into female prisons, but that this was so wrong. He also said not to write back to him because I was never going to change his mind”.

He told you not to write back to him? So he’s allowed to contact you, calling you disgusting names and insults but you are not permitted to counter argue or defend yourself? Because the big boss man says so.

Keep that message and re-read it if you ever think of taking this utter piece of woman hating shit back in your life. He sounds absolutely revolting and a very nasty,- even dangerous man. Thank god you have gotten him out of you and your daughter’s life. I’d expect some pushback though, abusers don’t like to let go of their victims easily and he’s desperate to get a rise out of you.

After your last post, he's a misogynist arsehole. He's been gaslighting you for years and is not, and never has been, your friend.

It is him
not you. There is something wrong with him. He is using you as a syphon for his personally feeling belittled as a man. He is a misogynist.

You really must NEVER speak, write to, or see him again. See a counsellor if necessary if you find it difficult to let go. This is a poisonous relationship.

Stupid, arrogant prick. I know it doesn't seem like it, but you're better off without him

This type of rhetoric leaves female people with no language that uniquely refers to themselves.

And I think that's the point. Because if you can't even have a clear category, then how can you defend your rights.

Yes, you're right. It's hard to convey over a few messages what our relationship has been like. 20s... going around gigs, bars, being a bit outrageous... massive laughs. But there were big arguments. He once got a girl pregnant. She didn't have medical coverage where we were (abroad) so she had to pay 400 quid. She asked him to help and he did, but then said he thought it was a scam. I was really upset about that.
30s, I moved to the countryside and set up my own charity. He has ridiculed it. Also, we're abroad. I have a degree in the language. He came over not speaking it. One day, he said, "Yeah, I'm better than you now at (language)". It stuck with me. Really weird.
He has some very rich friends and has always been jealous. His wife is very wealthy now, so he's landed on his feet.
I'm struggling. Lost my mum last year (who lived with me). Have my child on my own. But I'm working my way out of it. I've been stalked over the last year (police involved). He knows all this. But has chosen to, in his words, "call me out" on this.
I'm mid-forties now and I'm wondering what it is about me that men don't like. I definitely think there's something. Part of me isn't bothered, but it's interesting.
My neighbour, in his fifties, very close, is also refusing to speak to me. He asked me if I liked him, I said yes. This was in English. He said, "good, because I like you". Then we just carried on gardening. I thought it was a bit odd. But he's a bit odd. Next day, he screamed at me in the street for smoking. And has refused to speak to me since.
Honestly, I live in the absolute middle of nowhere and manage to attract nutters. They must see me as weak. But I don't carry myself that way. Or at least, I don't think I do.

He sounds like an absolute cunt. I don't think this is about whether this individual is biologically male or female. I've said on the "What is a woman" thread that men often don't like hearing that they commit 98% of sexual and violent crimes and can become quite heated about it. I wonder if deep down your friend sees this individual as a male bodied person and doesn't know how to process it. He may have reverted to the "be kind" mantra to absolve mankind (the male kind) of any involvement in what in my opinion is, male violence against women.

He could also just be a cunt who can't do joint up thinking.

@Patty78 I think you would be right to just cut him off. But, in case you want to have the final word, show him this interview with Khelif's team in Le Point:

https://archive.ph/QwQwD#selection-1567.294-1567.611

They knew all along he was an XY, gonadally male, T-sensitive individual, and they've been suppressing his T so as to pass anti-doping tests. The only female thing about him is his paperwork.

Oh OP, well done on blocking him. He's truly an awful person.

There is nothing wrong with you. There's an alarmingly large number of men who want to control women and really, really can't cope with us having our own opinions that differ to theirs, that's all. Your sister has been warning you about him for years, you've done the right thing.

Don’t send him anything, he’ll just relish the chance to tell he won't watch or read it.

He is hideous, but deep down I think part of you already knew this. It’s horrible to acknowledge but he secretly hates you and probably always has.
My ‘friend’ was the same, always gaslighting me then acting innocent. I even caught him smirking with dupers delight at me and I still carried on being his mate as we had good times together.
Getting rid of him killed him, his ego couldn’t compute, the nasty fucking loser.

It sounds as if it has always been a very unbalanced relationship - in which his needs always take centre stage, and he has all the power.

Just because it has gone on in this way for a long time, doesn't mean it must continue to do so. Sometimes we grow away from certain relationships - especially when they no longer reflect our own feelings of self worth and value.

You really do deserve better. He sounds very disrespectful and unpleasant.

Yes, it seems somehow you have been attracting men whon sense an inner insecurity and neediness in you.......and who enjoy the power that gives them.

You had some good times with him and you will have some happy memories. That is okay. Now you know what he’s really like, the friendship is over. That’s okay too because you deserve so much better.

He sounds like a disrespectful, misogynistic, bigoted arse and you are well rid of him. Move on with your head held high.

“My neighbour, in his fifties, very close, is also refusing to speak to me. He asked me if I liked him, I said yes. This was in English. He said, "good, because I like you". Then we just carried on gardening. I thought it was a bit odd. But he's a bit odd. Next day, he screamed at me in the street for smoking. And has refused to speak to me since.
Honestly, I live in the absolute middle of nowhere and manage to attract nutters. They must see me as weak. But I don't carry myself that way. Or at least, I don't think I do.”

@Patty78

It’s not you. It’s them. It’s a thing that male bullies do. They target female neighbours who are solo householders, and harass them.

There are loads of threads on here from women who don’t have a man living with them who find themselves targeted by one of their male neighbours. It’s a clear pattern of behaviour from certain kinds of men.

Ugh. That “love-hate relationship” thing, sending you gushing messages yet also being dismissive and weirdly competitive with you? That is a narcissist keeping you on a string. He’s keeping you on the side to feed his ego. PLEASE ditch him and do not look back.

I'm mid-forties now and I'm wondering what it is about me that men don't like.

That’s a very strange non sequitur.

I’m wondering why you seem to set the bar quite low for men. The problem is with them not you. They do weird things & you think it’s you?

@Patty78 my ex-friend wasn't as abusive as yours, though it probably would have made it easier for me to ex him as a friend if he had been. I spent so long thinking about what our relationship had become and how one-sided it had started to feel. I felt like he treated me as a convenience, someone to meet up with on his terms and not mine.

What occurred to me in the end was that, having totted up all his sneers and dismissals over the years, I realised that I couldn't trust him and that if I couldn't trust him then I couldn't be friends with him. It seems to me that you can't trust this man either and that makes any meaningful friendship impossible.

He's just said me and JK Rowling don't get to decide what a woman is. I never said we did.

So how come he gets to. And how come international athletics and other sports acknowledged a problem!?

Odd that.

There are loads of threads on here from women who don’t have a man living with them who find themselves targeted by one of their male neighbours. It’s a clear pattern of behaviour from certain kinds of men.

That’s right. Some men can’t stand the independence from them, and their lack of control, or ownership.