Huge argument with best friend about the boxers. Devestated.

[Patty78]

My best friend of 30 years has called me stupid, cruel, a fucking terf, a numpty, and an idealogical bigot. He also said he hopes my 7 year old daughter doesn't end up with XY chromosomes and I have to tell her she wasn't a real woman. Who does that?
I'm so so so upset. I went through my points clearly and calmly. I pointed him in the direction of Andrew Gold's interview with a developmental biologist. I said she made all the points much much better than I could.
I said I didn't really know what the situation was with this particular boxer because nobody could seem to agree. My only point was that if she is XY and went through male puberty, then some sort of policy should be in place. I also said that it wasn't fair for her to be in the limelight like this and that basically, it needs sorting at an administrative level.
The vitriol from him has really shocked me. I'm in tears. He's talking about my cruelty to this boxer (who he says was born and raised a woman and it doesn't matter about the chromosomes and would I also stop basketball players from growing too tall) whilst also being extraordinarily nasty to me.
Now I'm wondering if I've got this wrong.
The reason I have gender-critical views is because I want to protect my daughter. But I'm pretty isolated, on my own... and now I'm really really sad.

Ignore him. He has an agenda. He's not a friend ro you, your daughter or women.

He sounds an awful person and he isn't your friend. I am sorry.

I can relate to that sadness and the loneliness of feeling that everyone else doesn't seem to see what you are seeing.

Step away from the relationship and leave the ball in their court to come back and apologise.

Do not apologise in any way - you have done nothing wrong and even if they disagree with your opinion, they have handled the disagreement in a very unpleasant and aggressive way.

Come and moan with us on here - it's virtual comfort and solidarity at least

All the women haters are doubling down on the tall basketball players and Michael Phelps. It's not the same. If these boxers have been through male puberty their opponents have been legally assaulted.

It feels like splitting up with someone. He's like my brother. He's making out like I'm this awful person. I understand that the right-wingers are all over this. But he knows me! I'm a big lefty. I'm one of those annoying fucking do-gooders. I always speak out for the underdog. I just don't understand it.

Any XY is surely a male.
Looks very masculine as well in every way.

There are ways of disagreeing with someone without being a complete dick, he does not seem to have managed it

i would block and ignore, he should not be allowed to speak to you like that

i am so sorry 💐

Yes but a certain kind of man would never root for the underdog if it was a woman

You're still speaking out for the underdog. He on the other hand, is happy for the underdog to be hurt. Says a lot about him.

.

Give yourselves lots of space.

It’s a conversation best avoided with many people, but in this case he sounds very much in the wrong.

He mentioned Michael Phelps and lactic acid. I don't even know anything about it. He's not watched the video. Or the quilette articl which is what I originally posted and why he went on the rant. He's just said me and JK Rowling don't get to decide what a woman is. I never said we did. I'm literally crying and shaking here.

He sounds as if he is your friend if you go along with him but not if you disagree with him. Not a healthy relationship.

Your friend is brain dead.

“ Extreme Left wing and right wing are cheeks on the same arse”

A quote seen recently.
EG the left wing MP calling for right winger’s throats to be cut.

Your friend does not have the moral high ground supporting this male XY in female sports.

The boxing thing is a red herring here. This isn’t an XX/XY/feminism issue; this is about how you treat a friend when they don’t agree with you.

i would reply saying that adults disgaree sometimes, especially on topics as complex as this, but that you don’t expect to be spoken to like that. If he doesn’t apologise, i’d be rethinking the friendship.

This man is not your friend if he has called you a bigot. And this man is the bigot calling you a terf in the way he has.

Friends talk without resorting to this name calling.

I am sorry that you found out this way, but good to know now.

Every single one of Michael Phelp's records has now been broken. He was very good at the time but not unbeatable. Records set by males will be untouchable for females. The website Boys vs women has all the stats to demonstrate this.

I'm very sorry you've had to go through this with your friend, but it is not uncommon, sadly. You are not wrong. Imane went through a male puberty. It doesn't matter in slightest what they think they are (one can debate the definition of woman until the cows come home), but the female category is to protect fairness for those who did not go through a male puberty. If you are not going to do that there is literally no point in segregating sports.

I had a disagreement with my DP about it. Nobody shouted or called each other names. He listened to my views, but I had to reiterate that I’d done a LOT of reading about dsds throughout the last few years on MN, that I’m not just having a kneejerk reaction and that I understand this is not the same as the trans issue - although I did point out that if there hadn’t been so many instances of trans male people winning in women’s sports I maybe wouldn’t be so angry about this!

And he pointed out that he’s a scientist and understands more about how genes can present and the nuances of different dsds and that we don’t know for sure the details of these athletes. He mentioned how difficult it must have been growing up one way and then finding out that you’re not actually a girl etc and was very much “be kind” about it and imagine how sad it would be not to be able to compete in the sport you love. But when I then said “so what is the point of women’s sport? It’s not so that mediocre male athletes can win medals. What criteria should we use if we actually want to make it worth segregating at all.

It was a very respectful chat, except for him worrying that I was angry with him, when I said it wasn’t him, it was the situation I was angry with. He then vowed to become the best feminist that ever lived .

The way your friend has spoken to you about it is unacceptable and aggressive. Bringing your child into the argument is despicable and he clearly has no empathy for women and girls. I know you’re sad but it sounds like he has no respect for you, so really you’re better off without him. Much like a relationship split it will hurt for a while but you’ll feel better for not having someone in your life who treats you like your views are abhorrent.

I am really depressed about how many people are completely captured by this. The number of posts saying it transphobia, when it’s got nothing to do with trans people. So many saying Khelif is biologically a woman even if he does have XY chromosomes (how?????). It’s so sad to see.

Your friend is no friend, not because they disagreed with you but because he couldn’t do it in a polite way. He sounds awful. Goes to show what he really thinks about women.

Your friend/ex-friend has just let you know that watching a male battering females in the Olympics is something he approved of, enjoyed, and wants to see more of. It’s not you who’s the awful person, it’s him. What he is doing is arguing in favour of male violence against women, whilst lying about what he’s doing. He’s a misogynist.

It's also another people the trans militants have hijacked. You know, because they are so special no one else can have an issue without them.

I never understand why people think the tall basketball players is comparable to what sex someone is. The segregation is by sex so a male in female sports matters. If there were categories of height then that would matter and you couldn’t have someone 6ft5 in the short category.

I have found it truly jaw dropping just how angry so many men have been about this issue. The number of completely irrational responses has been eye opening.

I think he's turned extra woke-bro and is just doubling down. I don't know. I've known him for 30 years and he's never been known as a feminist-ally. He said my type of feminism is leaving that boxer behind. That I'm saying that an XY woman isn't a woman and that it's disgusting. He's trying to sound super-feminist. But in the past, he's not treated women with respect. I'm in shock.

Your friend sounds like a right nasty piece of work. No matter who's right or wrong about this, that he chose to insult and belittle you says everything about his character.