Huge argument with best friend about the boxers. Devestated.

[Patty78]

My best friend of 30 years has called me stupid, cruel, a fucking terf, a numpty, and an idealogical bigot. He also said he hopes my 7 year old daughter doesn't end up with XY chromosomes and I have to tell her she wasn't a real woman. Who does that?
I'm so so so upset. I went through my points clearly and calmly. I pointed him in the direction of Andrew Gold's interview with a developmental biologist. I said she made all the points much much better than I could.
I said I didn't really know what the situation was with this particular boxer because nobody could seem to agree. My only point was that if she is XY and went through male puberty, then some sort of policy should be in place. I also said that it wasn't fair for her to be in the limelight like this and that basically, it needs sorting at an administrative level.
The vitriol from him has really shocked me. I'm in tears. He's talking about my cruelty to this boxer (who he says was born and raised a woman and it doesn't matter about the chromosomes and would I also stop basketball players from growing too tall) whilst also being extraordinarily nasty to me.
Now I'm wondering if I've got this wrong.
The reason I have gender-critical views is because I want to protect my daughter. But I'm pretty isolated, on my own... and now I'm really really sad.

He's trying to sound super-feminist.

I find that many left leaning men are happy to take a feminist position. So long as that feminism supports men's interests. See abortion rights for example.

Once those needs are in conflict, you'll find out exactly how 'feminist' these men are. That's what we're all waking up to now.

That really sucks. But you've now seen what he really thinks of you. I'm not sure if the relationship can come back from this considering all the strikes against him; I would advise not getting caught up in the sunk cost fallacy ("but we've been friends for 30 years") and cut him off if at all possible. At least you know now?

I've lost some friends but almost all have been women around my own age, some of them mothers who should know better. I ultimately decided that if they wanted to pressure me into lying they weren't for me.

You deserve better.

She really does.

I'm really sorry this happened to you, OP, I can feel your pain, and also probably your shock - this was a friend, a 'brother', and he just turned on you. Like a family pet bared its teeth and went for you.. I'm glad you came here for support and hope some of it makes you feel less alone.

I don't have much to do with men, but something I've noticed is how vehement they can get very quickly in an argument - I learnt this one day when two of my friends' husbands [the position of the apostrophe is important, it's just one husband each!] came round to my house to collect something. I made them a cuppa and we started talking amiably about a book on my table, about a female historical figure. Within a minute or two the two of them had raised their voices and were trashing everything I said as 'feminist overstatement' and 'naive and simplistic'.

The other thing I really disliked was that they were shooting little conspiratorial glances at each other, like they were egging each other on and upping the temperature. Although they don't know each other very well, it was like a pack mentality developed - 'take down the uppity woman'.

I had that shock reaction you had, OP, though fortunately for me they were never close friends, so I was rattled by their behaviour, but not upset like you are.

I comforted myself by thinking that maybe they were getting back at me because their wives like me so much

feels like splitting up with someone. He's like my brother. He's making out like I'm this awful person. I understand that the right-wingers are all over this. But he knows me! I'm a big lefty. I'm one of those annoying fucking do-gooders. I always speak out for the underdog. I just don't understand it.

It makes it worse. DP is not left wing or particularly into social justice and I got so much more shit than he did, his politically incorrect jokes were met with a tolerant eye roll, I got the type of idiotic uninformed haranguing and guilt tripping you did.

Sorry @Patty78 meant to quote you.

I wonder, would your friend date her (the boxer)?

I find it interesting when men feel so strongly about things like this, but if it came to it, he wouldn't feel she was female enough to date her himself. But women must except her as a woman, even if men can't!

One of my best friends and I fell out about the trans debate years ago. I was so upset.

Many of my female friends told me they didn’t know why I was friends with him in the first given what a massive sexist and misogynist he was. I hadn’t seen it but they had. Sounds like your friend is similar to him.

Exactly. The double standards are rife

Yes I'm sure it must have been your relatives fault for maintaining boundaries and not your own stridency 🤣🤣🤣

Thank you all so so much for everything. You won't believe what a help it's been. I'm not backing down on this one. He has to go. I could write a book about the awful things he's done. I'm just holding onto it because he's always been around. My sister lives 500 miles away. So does he. I lost both parents last year... and I get nostalgic. But he does hate women. And I think he hates me deep down. I've given him so many chances. It has to stop. I have to stand up to what I know is right. I've said what I wanted to say. He's refused to listen. I'm done. And I'm not taking the bait. He likes arguing with me. And for some reason, it's ALWAYS me. Just me.
In other news, I told a man who helps at a charity thing I do (who told me his wife and daughters were away for ten days and so he was free and single if I wanted to go over) to never text me again and that his interactions with me (for thete have been several) were making me uncomfortable and were inappropriate. I'm proud. I've always talked the fucking talk. It's ridiculous. I make excuses for these bellends. I SO need to walk the walk.
I'll keep checking in on this board. It's fantastic support.

Aye,I'll bet the 'close family member' is devastated.

Well done and well said OP. You've found yourself and you'll make your daughter proud xx

You go girl😀
Take back your power.

Very well done patty

its really hard but you really didn’t deserve any of that

Well done and keep going!

Well done!

👏👏👏
Good work! You definitely deserve to be proud of yourself.

just be ready for the faux outrage at you having the temerity to take out the trash (what's the matter with you? why so sensitive? its only a bit of joking?) fuck that for a lark-these people are cunts and you need shot of them.

Your sister is spot on, give her a call. He is not your soul mate, if you had ever ended up with this judgemental entitled bellend you’d have been seriously settling. Dear god op imagine thinking someone who thinks you’re too fat to be in a relationship with or who slangs off your 7yo might be your soulmate!!(Thank goodness you supported his ex wife instead of letting another woman down). It doesn’t sound like he has any trouble knowing what a woman is himself, he doesn’t need you or jk Rowling to tell him as he’s worked it out all on his own. And he might not lke them earning money and having real jobs but it sounds like he’s happy to spend it, because entitled hypocrites are like that. Forget him.

Well done, you should be really proud of yourself. I had a male friend who deep down hated me too. He was always negging me, then accusing me of not being able to take a joke…..I look back now and can’t believe I put up with it for so long.
You’ll do the same xxx

Good to see your updates! Well done you. But I know how hard it is to do that.

So pleased to see your update @Patty78. Yes he's an absolute bullying knob. It's fine to disagree on issues, it's not fine to bully everyone (I suspect in his case every woman) who disagrees with you.

Get some lovely new friends (I recommend TERFs 😉)

@Patty78 Well done especially on calling out the creepy married man. You’ll be unstoppable now!