Huge argument with best friend about the boxers. Devestated.

[Patty78]

My best friend of 30 years has called me stupid, cruel, a fucking terf, a numpty, and an idealogical bigot. He also said he hopes my 7 year old daughter doesn't end up with XY chromosomes and I have to tell her she wasn't a real woman. Who does that?
I'm so so so upset. I went through my points clearly and calmly. I pointed him in the direction of Andrew Gold's interview with a developmental biologist. I said she made all the points much much better than I could.
I said I didn't really know what the situation was with this particular boxer because nobody could seem to agree. My only point was that if she is XY and went through male puberty, then some sort of policy should be in place. I also said that it wasn't fair for her to be in the limelight like this and that basically, it needs sorting at an administrative level.
The vitriol from him has really shocked me. I'm in tears. He's talking about my cruelty to this boxer (who he says was born and raised a woman and it doesn't matter about the chromosomes and would I also stop basketball players from growing too tall) whilst also being extraordinarily nasty to me.
Now I'm wondering if I've got this wrong.
The reason I have gender-critical views is because I want to protect my daughter. But I'm pretty isolated, on my own... and now I'm really really sad.

Agreed. There's a female Algerian boxer who did not get to go to the Olympics. A female one might hazard a guess had to overcome all the same hurdles Khelif did, but without the many benefits of a male puberty, and being treated at least as a pseudo-male to judge by the videos and photos doing the rounds.

I quit the grassroots women's sport I'd been involved with for thirty years after they started permitting self-IDing men to play.

I agree with the majority about your "friend". I also agree about the boxers.

I don't agree with the lazy stereotyping of left-wing = doing good v right-wing evil.
Left v right tends to be a bit more complex that that and our Western European economies are mainly more right than left (capitalist rather than communist), and there's usually a balancing act going on.

There are evil regimes who are left and right. There are harmful policies that damage people that are essentially left or essentially right. Extremism comes in both left and right ideologies.

There are plenty of examples of left wing regimes that are intolerant of anything other than straight monogamy.

The sex thing is biology and the evidence of our own eyes.
And I'm sorry for what happened with your ex friend OP - that is hard.

Sorry Op but the simple truth is that as a man none of this impacts him. It's very easy to be ultra woke when none of the consequences will come back to haunt him later.

I'm so sorry. He is not a friend. If he truly cared for you he would not have behaved that way. You've just found out he's an asshole.
That's one thing being GC is good for- sorting the wheat from the chaff.

Reply: "oh really, that's a fun game ... well .... I wish I had a b/f with Johns body, Steve's personality, and Frank's car"
Ie leave him out completely😂, you gotta do it back to them & do it better!

Exactly.

I wonder if he is 'like a brother' and part of 'a team' as long as you go along with his views and he can feel superior to you.

It's like those husbands that are lovely and a great father as long as you don't disagree with them at which point they become borderline abusive.

He thinks you can't determine what a woman is, but somehow he, a man. is entitled to? How does that work then? None of those men have any answer to what a woman actually is, unless the answer is that any man who says they are a woman should just be able to say so. And if it interferes with women's rights and protections, it's just tough and even wanting to discuss the implications of that automatically makes you a bigot. And yet obliterating natal women's rights is not bigoted? And what it comes down to is that women are just not viewed as important as men and those men who are irritated at feminism see this as a chance to roll back.

SImilarly the MAGAs in the US are loving women's rights to abortion and in the future even contraception are being withdrawn. Sickening.

So you call yourself a cis woman but call a man a woman. Says it all.

You're in favour of men verbally abusing women who disagree with them?

Your friend has shown his true misogynistic colours- cut him loose.

Was just going to say that.
He sounds worse with every post. A horrible person.

So you agree that it's okay for a man to viciously verbally abuse a woman over a difference of opinion, even bringing her daughter into it? You agree that anyone who doesn't fall in with your views is stupid, a bigot, etc.?
You should be embarrassed for yourself then. Disgraceful.
The real ideological bigots are the ones shutting down debate with abuse.

Quite.

And in other news, being a woman doesn't entitle you to give up other women's rights. If you want to box against genetically male boxers, then fill your boots, but that doesn't give you the right to force other women to choose between that and giving up their careers and their dreams.

The term 'cis female' has been bandied around quite a bit. It is remarkable.

I posted this the other day and got no coherent answer, just a doubling down that being 'registered at birth' is all that is needed. From someone who prides themselves on their academic achievements and 'feminism'. They could not address the issue nor did they seem even to understand the issue. That is how entrenched they are in ideological belief.

**

How can someone be ‘cis’ if they were incorrectly categorised at birth? This now has moved the term ‘cis woman’ to now not mean ‘female’ and has become simply as meaningless as the term ‘woman’.

What word can be used to describe an adult who has the sex female as being unique from all other groups?

So now we have :

Woman - anyone who describes themselves as a woman

leading to the next label

Transwoman - anyone who describes themselves as a transwoman

Cis woman - female people who describe themselves of women AND male people who were incorrectly categorised at birth as female.

We are told that we must accept the term cis woman. It is used in some academic papers after all.

So this move now has just made all of those supposedly peer reviewed papers and studies indecipherable. And if they are about female people’s medical issues, they are potentially false or at the best misleading.

Plus we now have males who have a transgender identity also calling themselves female.

Language is imperative to discuss the issues around the protection of the rights of female people, including sports. And yet we are to be demonised and vilified for using clear language calling people who are the genotype of XY.

This type of rhetoric leaves female people with no language that uniquely refers to themselves.

patty

I believe it is about an ‘any MALE who has gone through male puberty competing in the protected female category for sport’ issue.

It is the same over arching issue. The impact of testosterone on male bodies being in female sport.

This impact is the same whether it is a male with a DSD or a male with a transgender identity. It is the same despite many trying to say it is not.

Good news for the future is that the corrupt Thomas Bach is stepping down. Hopefully Seb Coe will take over and clear up this shitshow so it never happens again.

Thank god for for that

Coe has far more integrity

I suppose what's happening is that full-on gender warriors who think TW are all, without question, who they say they are and are women and should be in women's sports whether it's fair or not, dismiss being XY or having male gonads as unimportant or not even scientifically valid because only "gender identity" counts. Therefore they can't agree that someone like Khelif shouldn't be there on account of these factors, even though Khelif is not identifying as trans, but as a biological woman.

This puts them in the odd position of claiming Khelif is a "cis woman" on account of being wrongly AFAB and wrongly called a woman now, because these two match. This means that if Khelif were to come out as trans, according to gender ideology they'd have to announce they were a man. So they'd be a male trans man.

This means that females can all be TW I guess.

Don’t be devasted this time next year you’ll feel like you never knew them .. I’ve had a friend like this I had to cut out … toxic

You are coming across as a very easily led and simultaneously stubborn and resistant. I query the dynamics in your scenario, massively.
You should thank your sister and not disrespect her advice, nor the advice here that you asked for.

How completely surprising!!!

It's just another example of how superficial and vacuous gender identity is as a concept.

I’m about as far from an expert on genetics as you can get, but it looks to me (and it’s a general observation, not about one person) that men will believe any old nonsense rather than accept a male with an unformed penis as a man.

Which I suppose is what you get when sexism and toxic masculinity meet.

I have a feeling you'd have made a better fist of explainers than many of the pieces available on major news websites…

Which I suppose is what you get when sexism and toxic masculinity meet.

This is an important observation. It seems that (some) men have quite complicated feelings about this. Feelings that are all about their own masculinity and barely consider women at all.