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Original poster

Bondi killings

222 replies

BeagleMum2024 · 14/04/2024 07:25

Been thinking about this horrendous incident. Why do innocents have to suffer ( majority female victims it appears) because a man has lost control of himself? Why didn't this nasty man just fuck somewhere and end himself quietly? I keep looking at photos of the mother who has been murdered and my thoughts are with her baby who is fighting for his or her life, and of course the other victims and their families.

OP posts:
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Original poster
BeagleMum2024 · 15/04/2024 12:19

This is a feminist discussion board ( I appreciate that can be triggering for some). A place to discuss male violence against women. Women live with male violence every single day of our lives. We have to mitigate against it, endure it and are forced to think about it every day. Left with no choice really.

We will discuss it. We won't 'be kind' nor will we be quiet about it. The situation is far too dangerous for us to contemplate that.

Do not come on to this thread and try to control the discussion. I am discussing a man's violence in a shopping centre against multiple women. A Catastrophic incident for all the innocents involved. There's no debate here and i'm not trying to prove a point. I don't need to, the facts speak for themselves.

OP posts:
WhyHuntSnails · 15/04/2024 12:33

Two of my siblings have the level of mental health difficulties that have led to being sectioned. Psychosis is fucking awful to watch and I have every sympathy for this man's parents as well as the victims.

I have never actually been physically afraid of my sister during psychotic episodes, but I have been terrified of my brother. And the police response was 'we don't have anyone to help until he's committed a crime'.

MrsSkylerWhite · 15/04/2024 12:39

@MissScarletInTheBallroom
Why don't women with schizophrenia who fail to take their meds carry out attacks like this?

It is rare but please don’t forget Emily Jones.

NefertitiV · 15/04/2024 12:42

@BeagleMum2024

Do not come on to this thread and try to control the discussion. I am discussing a man's violence in a shopping centre against multiple women. A Catastrophic incident for all the innocents involved. There's no debate here and i'm not trying to prove a point. I don't need to, the facts speak for themselves.

But we don't yet know all those facts. The police don't even know those facts as they have only just cleared the crime scene itself. There is much to do in the actual investigation. Yes, it seems at this stage primarily women were killed and injured; why, is not established, and to conjecture about this is premature.

dimllaishebiaith · 15/04/2024 12:44

HoppingPavlova · 15/04/2024 07:10

I just don't understand what motivates these killers to destroy the innocent lives of people just out shopping

Mental illness. Just like the UK, our support services for those with mental illness is pretty non-existent. I read his family paid privately for treatment but he reached an age where he could not be made to engage. It’s a really complicated area but there would have been several touch points from the sound of it where in an ideal world he should have been MADE to engage. But that takes away people’s rights, and also is a conveniently non-existent concept in a health area that has had the guts absolutely stripped out of it with funding. That’s what needs to be focused on here not some self-serving feminist bs. Yes, he was a coward avoiding men, likely no more than that, didn’t want to risk anyone who may fight back. A severely mentally ill coward.

Edited to add that his long standing mental illness was schizophrenia, and seemingly he had a long standing fascination with knives, guns and weapons in general so probably amazing he didn’t do something like this sooner really.

Edited

It is possible to simultaneously state that this attack might not have happened if there were better mental health provisons, and as (mostly) women discuss the impact of an attack where mostly women have died and how there is a pattern of violence against women and girls

As for your self serving feminism talk, if you think women talking about how women can stop being killed by men is self serving then I will say Im self serving, because I would like less/no women and girls to be killed by male violence. If you think thats self serving, that says more about you than the feminists on this thread

Original poster
BeagleMum2024 · 15/04/2024 12:48

NefertitiV · 15/04/2024 12:42

@BeagleMum2024

Do not come on to this thread and try to control the discussion. I am discussing a man's violence in a shopping centre against multiple women. A Catastrophic incident for all the innocents involved. There's no debate here and i'm not trying to prove a point. I don't need to, the facts speak for themselves.

But we don't yet know all those facts. The police don't even know those facts as they have only just cleared the crime scene itself. There is much to do in the actual investigation. Yes, it seems at this stage primarily women were killed and injured; why, is not established, and to conjecture about this is premature.

The fact is a man has killed multiple women! Utter devastation for all concerned, many lives ruined. A man has walked into a shopping centre and killed multiple women. I can and will, discuss this and the wider issue of male violence against women.

OP posts:
MrsWhattery · 15/04/2024 12:56

folk who promulgate hate-filled ideologies need to be aware that their words will fall on the hinged and unhinged alike.

This was the point I tried to make earlier and got deleted - I'm not sure why. When an ideology, and the concept of killing people as a terror attack in the name of that ideology, is out there, is talked about on the internet etc, it may influence people who are mentally unstable and may become obsessive or violent in a way that is contributed to by their mental illness. Of course that doesn't mean anyone with an MH condition is violent or likely to be violent, I'm included in that myself and I don't think my anxiety problem/ former PND makes me any more likely to be violent than anyone else - but schizophrenia does have as a known symptom, feeling paranoid and under attack and sometimes having a compulsion, or a sense of being instructed, to attack others.

I really don't think it's dissing everyone with MH problems to understand that. It's the reason people suffering from schizophrenia who have killed people are sometimes understood not to be fully responsible or are sent to a secure hospital instead of prison. It's the reason there's supposed to be a system of sectioning and secure residential care for people who might pose a threat to themselves or others because of particular types or manifestations of mental illness.

Guess I might get deleted again but I do think this is important to understand. It's not just fully committed ideology-driven terrorists who are dangerous, but people who are influenced by them when in a vulnerable state. The degree of direct responsibility is probably unique in each case.

Re women, it does happen but there's probably a combination of reasons why it's much rarer, to do with female biology, socialisation and societal reactions to mental illness in the two different sexes.

sawdustformypony · 15/04/2024 12:59

MrsWhattery · 15/04/2024 12:56

folk who promulgate hate-filled ideologies need to be aware that their words will fall on the hinged and unhinged alike.

This was the point I tried to make earlier and got deleted - I'm not sure why. When an ideology, and the concept of killing people as a terror attack in the name of that ideology, is out there, is talked about on the internet etc, it may influence people who are mentally unstable and may become obsessive or violent in a way that is contributed to by their mental illness. Of course that doesn't mean anyone with an MH condition is violent or likely to be violent, I'm included in that myself and I don't think my anxiety problem/ former PND makes me any more likely to be violent than anyone else - but schizophrenia does have as a known symptom, feeling paranoid and under attack and sometimes having a compulsion, or a sense of being instructed, to attack others.

I really don't think it's dissing everyone with MH problems to understand that. It's the reason people suffering from schizophrenia who have killed people are sometimes understood not to be fully responsible or are sent to a secure hospital instead of prison. It's the reason there's supposed to be a system of sectioning and secure residential care for people who might pose a threat to themselves or others because of particular types or manifestations of mental illness.

Guess I might get deleted again but I do think this is important to understand. It's not just fully committed ideology-driven terrorists who are dangerous, but people who are influenced by them when in a vulnerable state. The degree of direct responsibility is probably unique in each case.

Re women, it does happen but there's probably a combination of reasons why it's much rarer, to do with female biology, socialisation and societal reactions to mental illness in the two different sexes.

Well said.

NefertitiV · 15/04/2024 13:11

@BeagleMum2024

The fact is a man has killed multiple women! Utter devastation for all concerned, many lives ruined. A man has walked into a shopping centre and killed multiple women. I can and will, discuss this and the wider issue of male violence against women.

No-one is stopping you from discussing it, so there's no need for the hyperbole there. However, associating the broader issue of male violence against women with this event is premature when we don't know the reasoning behind his actions. (If there even was one.)

Using this event to for your own activist means is a bit off, IMO.

Brefugee · 15/04/2024 13:16

EasternStandard · 15/04/2024 09:12

Why do you think it’s part of the police investigation?

It’s not just the feminist board on mn looking at this

Police believe killer Joel Cauchi was 'targeting women' when he fatally stabbed six people in a horror rampage at Westfield Bondi Junction, the NSW Police Commissioner said.

'It's obvious to me... The offender focused on women and avoided the men,' Commissioner Webb told the ABC on Monday

Show quote history

for transparency: I reported one post (so far, there may be more) for accusing posters on FWR of man hating. i have had enough of it. if you are coming here to make baseless allegations like that, to scold, I will be here reporting it.

We have one small corner to discuss things that affect women on MN. One tiny corner. And it is clear, worldwide where the persecuted minority are: women. From FGM to Afghanistani women not going to school to senseless murder sprees like in Sydney. It is very clear to everyone who women are when they are to be mutilated, murdered or used as prostitutes or surrogates. And we are, we must be, allowed to talk about that without being accused of hating men.

dimllaishebiaith · 15/04/2024 13:16

NefertitiV · 15/04/2024 13:11

@BeagleMum2024

The fact is a man has killed multiple women! Utter devastation for all concerned, many lives ruined. A man has walked into a shopping centre and killed multiple women. I can and will, discuss this and the wider issue of male violence against women.

No-one is stopping you from discussing it, so there's no need for the hyperbole there. However, associating the broader issue of male violence against women with this event is premature when we don't know the reasoning behind his actions. (If there even was one.)

Using this event to for your own activist means is a bit off, IMO.

You seem to be mistaking women talking about the emotional impact on them of another violent attack on mostly women, regardless of the motivation behind it, and sympathising with those impacted, along with a wider chat around how it aligns and sits beside other acts of violence against women as "activist means" as if feminists/ women cant just have a chat which is a bit off IMO

Brefugee · 15/04/2024 13:27

LogicLoverLlama · 14/04/2024 11:14

If he had schizophrenia as reported, this is a mental health issue and not a men vs women situation and it’s quite offensive to paint it as such. It’s a tragedy. It shouldn’t have happened. But OP it’s not helpful to frame it this way.

let’s stick to the facts and focus on the victims.

And now? what do you say now?

LogicLoverLlama · 15/04/2024 13:29

Brefugee · 15/04/2024 13:27

And now? what do you say now?

Show quote history

I say you can have schizophrenia and still be sexist.

Brefugee · 15/04/2024 13:37

Cazpar · 15/04/2024 12:12

Why don't women with schizophrenia who fail to take their meds carry out attacks like this?

Women with schizophrenia can and do carry out attacks like this.

In the last few years in the UK alone:

  • Emma Borowy stabbed a man to death in a park in Sheffield in 2023.
  • Heaven Belal decapitated her brother in 2021.
  • Eltiona Skana stabbed 7 year old Emily Jones (not known to her) to death in a park in 2020.
  • Zara Radcliffe beat a man to death in a Co-op in 2020 after she had tried to stab him and other shoppers with a knife.

Schizophrenia is terrifying. It is certainly relevant that this man suffered from it and was not taking his medication.

what do you notice about each of the victims of those women?

Original poster
BeagleMum2024 · 15/04/2024 13:40

NefertitiV · 15/04/2024 13:11

@BeagleMum2024

The fact is a man has killed multiple women! Utter devastation for all concerned, many lives ruined. A man has walked into a shopping centre and killed multiple women. I can and will, discuss this and the wider issue of male violence against women.

No-one is stopping you from discussing it, so there's no need for the hyperbole there. However, associating the broader issue of male violence against women with this event is premature when we don't know the reasoning behind his actions. (If there even was one.)

Using this event to for your own activist means is a bit off, IMO.

It is male violence against women. The facts speak for themselves.

OP posts:
Original poster
BeagleMum2024 · 15/04/2024 13:43

NefertitiV · 15/04/2024 13:11

@BeagleMum2024

The fact is a man has killed multiple women! Utter devastation for all concerned, many lives ruined. A man has walked into a shopping centre and killed multiple women. I can and will, discuss this and the wider issue of male violence against women.

No-one is stopping you from discussing it, so there's no need for the hyperbole there. However, associating the broader issue of male violence against women with this event is premature when we don't know the reasoning behind his actions. (If there even was one.)

Using this event to for your own activist means is a bit off, IMO.

Activist? 🤣 that's a new one.

OP posts:
Goldwork · 15/04/2024 13:43

what do you notice about each of the victims of those women?

Genuinely not sure what you're getting at here - what do you notice?

Cazpar · 15/04/2024 13:47

Brefugee · 15/04/2024 13:37

what do you notice about each of the victims of those women?

Show quote history

In order:

One was a random dog walker.

One was a brother to the attacker.

One was a young girl.

One was an elderly man (Zara was also charged with the attempted murder of two women and a different man following the attack).

I am not sure what you're getting at.

NefertitiV · 15/04/2024 13:49

@dimllaishebiaith

You seem to be mistaking women talking about the emotional impact on them of another violent attack on mostly women, regardless of the motivation behind it, and sympathising with those impacted, along with a wider chat around how it aligns and sits beside other acts of violence against women as "activist means" as if feminists/ women cant just have a chat which is a bit off IMO

I actually live here. This has been a horrifying event for us. How could women so far away (primarily) suffer emotional impact to the point they shut others down from speaking? No, that's emotion-borrowing. Sympathise by all means. It isn't "just women having a chat".

dimllaishebiaith · 15/04/2024 13:54

NefertitiV · 15/04/2024 13:49

@dimllaishebiaith

You seem to be mistaking women talking about the emotional impact on them of another violent attack on mostly women, regardless of the motivation behind it, and sympathising with those impacted, along with a wider chat around how it aligns and sits beside other acts of violence against women as "activist means" as if feminists/ women cant just have a chat which is a bit off IMO

I actually live here. This has been a horrifying event for us. How could women so far away (primarily) suffer emotional impact to the point they shut others down from speaking? No, that's emotion-borrowing. Sympathise by all means. It isn't "just women having a chat".

I understand how this must be a horrific event for you and I sympathise.

Some of the other posters on here talking about this from the angle of general violence on women have also stated they live there and some know or are familiar with some of the victims. It is also horrific for them. That doesn't somehow make their conversation activism just because their angle of conversation is different to yours

they shut others down from speaking?

I havent done this so Im not sure why you are using this in a post in response to me as if I have

It isn't "just women having a chat".

I mean it may also be men too. But its certainly not more than a chat unless I have missed links to petitions, drafts of letters to send to political figures or some other form of activism in the thread?

NefertitiV · 15/04/2024 13:54

@BeagleMum2024

It is male violence against women. The facts speak for themselves.

And one man. So this 'fact' of yours is already incorrect. Please wait for the investigation to finish.

Original poster
BeagleMum2024 · 15/04/2024 14:07

NefertitiV · 15/04/2024 13:49

@dimllaishebiaith

You seem to be mistaking women talking about the emotional impact on them of another violent attack on mostly women, regardless of the motivation behind it, and sympathising with those impacted, along with a wider chat around how it aligns and sits beside other acts of violence against women as "activist means" as if feminists/ women cant just have a chat which is a bit off IMO

I actually live here. This has been a horrifying event for us. How could women so far away (primarily) suffer emotional impact to the point they shut others down from speaking? No, that's emotion-borrowing. Sympathise by all means. It isn't "just women having a chat".

Thank you for sanctioning, 'sympathy' as an allowed emotion.

You cannot control this thread or what people say, just because it has happened where you live. You sound ridiculous and almost proprietorial over this dreadful incident. Imagine if we all took your view and only cared about what happens in our own back yard? When women are killed by male violence or harmed, it causes distress, empathy, anger, despair......

Perhaps leave this thread and go and offer support in some capacity as you are local?It may be helpful to you ( I'm not being sarcastic). If I was local, I would be asking if there is anything I can do to offer support.

OP posts:
blanketfortden · 15/04/2024 14:47

I've noticed before that some of these awful male perpetrated spree killings have a disproportionate number of female victims - even the school ones.

When I mentioned this on here before I was told it was obscene to mention it and that I was weird to even consider from that perspective. But being a feminist with a work history of gender based data analysis I couldn't not notice...and it feels obscene to me that this aspect is glossed over by the media. The first step to eradicating extreme male violence towards women is to acknowledge it.

Goldwork · 15/04/2024 14:55

I've noticed before that some of these awful male perpetrated spree killings have a disproportionate number of female victims - even the school ones.

I don't know if this is correct for spree killings but overall men kill more of each other than than they kill women.

blanketfortden · 15/04/2024 15:12

But do criminologists even do gender analysis of spree killing victims... I'm not going to start googling that, it's too much to think about as the mother of a small girl child.