The Ladies pond again

[IcakethereforeIam]

Trying to have a vote to make it women only again

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/22/transgender-women-ban-kenwood-ladies-pond-hampstead-heath/

https://archive.ph/xbIsK paywall dodge

I'm not holding my breath.

Not while you're in there, mate.

pmsl at @AdrianPimento ’s raging transphobia. These are not men wanting to be women Adrian, you totally misunderstand the whole ideology. These are literal women in every sense of the word. They want to sleep in dorms with you daughters, share a hospital room with your mother, breastfeed your babies, they literally are women and you calling them men who want to be women does not pass muster.
Women’s rights to single sex spaces are not yours to give away Adrian, no matter how much you don’t need them. And for the record I swim frequently at the ladies pond and am appalled by the embarrassing pandering by women old enough and clever enough to know better. I’ve never seen a man there (except workmen, where a claxon loudly announces their arrival) but if I did, I would make an enormous fuss and he would think twice about invading my space again.

Of course they don't. If they changed it, they wouldn't be able to validate their personal self image with the women in the pool. It has to remain women only so they can do that.

Slow hand clap for you though, not minding if men just use women as tools for their reality denying self perception.

Excluding trans women is neither proportionate nor legitimate, and therefore unlawful.

Even if it were so, providers do not have to exclude trans women, they can chose to do so if it’s proportionate and legitimate.

The majority of women consulted want trans women to stay, and they are not “self hating” for supporting trans inclusivity.

Literally the only people intruding on single sex spaces where they shouldn’t be were gender critical women.

@DadJoke can't hear you dear, your voice is at the wrong pitch.

Excluding trans women is neither proportionate nor legitimate, and therefore unlawful.

"What Dadjoke thinks" is not the arbiter of what's considered proportionate or legitimate. Pretty sure women only swimming sessions are given as an example in the EA. Plus there is a mixed pond, so these men have a mixed sex third space. Indeed it could be seen as unlawful to let some men in but not others.

A reminder that the current legal position is that the Equality Act protected characteristic of male sex applies to all "trans women" without a GRC, and the comparator for "gender reassignment" is generally taken to be a man without that characteristic.

The government response to this petition is interesting. Maybe they forgot to check with dadjoke before making it.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/622145

You are relying on chance.

All three pools are now mixed sex because of the sexist, reality denying trans ideology.

You are settling for the crumbs that mean you have to hope that no man is going to exploit the policy.

You might feel comfortable swimming in the pool where it's unusual, or rare, to see a man. But there are many women who simply won't be able to do that.

Trans policy may not routinely affect women who aren't vulnerable. But fuck me, they ought to have a little empathy for women who are vulnerable.

This 'I'm alright Jack pull the ladder up' attitude demonstrates a profound ignorance about some women's lives.

The majority of women consulted want trans women to stay, and they are not “self hating” for supporting trans inclusivity.

lol, they admitted to binning the responses they didn't like.

Honestly.

Women are asking for a male pool, a female pool and a mixed pool. It's so equal, you couldn't get anything more equal.

It's fairer than the most fair thing ever.

It's extraordinary how some men just find it doesn't pander to them quite enough

The first question on the bloody questionnaire was something like what's your gender or what's your gender identity, the responses which didn't answer those ideological questions were binned.

I don't swim there anymore but I used to semi regularly. I got extremely uncomfortable once a certain man imposed himself in to the women's pool. How dare you question women wanting their own spaces. This man even told me how excited he was to be able to swim in the men's pool when it was open for women! He's a bloody man. He can go there whenever he wants - just keep out of our spaces.

@AdrianPimento are you aware that "trans woman" is defined as any male who identifies himself as a woman? There's literally no difference between "man" and "trans woman" other than this self-declaration of womanliness.

I have much faith in women, men not so much.
I just said I don't go there now because men are allowed and these men with womanly feels do in fact go to the womens pond, which really does mean eventually no cunty women will go.
Peeping Tom's (why yuck) are now welcomed in with open arms. No need to hide away when you can have free range of all three ponds.

Please do tell us how you have decided which men are "playing stupid games "
I'd love to be able to go in any formerly female only space and be able to tell the gamers for the real deal.

Do you know yet how many transwomen itll take in the pond to become officially mixed sex?

They are ALL playing games. That's the point.

again do you listen to the utter piffle you spout? "male bodied women swim in the women's pond"

And yet, as we know, female bodied women who identified as men were escorted out by the police. But we are not allowed (because genocide) to ask "are you really a woman?" (we can tell) or even "wouldn't you be more comfortable in the mixed pond?"

So fuck that shit. You and your bleating whining "male bodied women" can get in the sea. I have no issues with people living their lives, dressed how they like (with normal social rules of decency). But men (and that includes the laughable "male bodies women") can get the FUCK out of places reserved for actual women.

again for the TRAs here: where should women who are not allowed to be around men to whom they are not related swim?
i go to a gym which has a separate ladies area, and there is a separate (many people don't know about it for reasons) where women who can not be around men for any reason, can be let in by a female member of staff, or a female member given the key by a male staff member (but they try to make sure there is always a female member of staff rostered on). This was set up when the sister of one of the owners married a more fundamental religious person than they are, and said she was no longer allowed to go. Men - any men at all - are not allowed in there. They will not be allowed and that is it.

There is no male only area as yet. But the newsletter announcing the female only area being strictly enforced said that they are open to having one if requested by enough people to make it worthwhile. (personally? i don't care apart from in the showers - we have mixed days and sex exclusive days for the sauna which are clearly labelled as such) and i prefer to train in the mixed part so I'm not blocking machines that only women can use. Just in case.

I don’t think i have manufactured any outrage, but i do think the attitude from many posters not just the ones on here of ‘unless you are personally affected you have no right to complain or say anything’ is both stupid and shortsighted

i am not personally affected by a lot of stuff, not child abuse, not London pollution, not domestic violence, not combustible cladding, not county lines, not the nhs being very shitty

so i guess i won’t complain about any of those things…maybe i will vote tory, after all all the things people say the tories will do to damage women they aren’t doing to me personally soooooo

(i won’t tory, its an example only)

What’s so great about the pond is that it IS a female led space. Nobody - certainly not a handful of transwomen- wants to change that.

You are correct that the handful of men don't want to change it from being a "female led" space. How would they get the thrill of being an interloper in a women's space if it stops being predominantly women?

Men don’t swim at the women’s pond. They aren’t allowed.
These are men.

Male-bodied people who identify as women can swim there
These are also men.

You bastardising language doesn't mean men aren't in the women's pool. They are.

I swim there whenever I can get a slot. I’m also a member of the KLPA and will vote with and for the women who want the KLPA to adopt a policy of pressing the City of London Corporation to change their disgraceful policy back to make the Women’s Pond truly single-sex, female only, as is permitted by the Equality Act and misrepresented by the KPLA Committee and their alleged legal advice.* *

The current and previous committees have been wrong not to press for female-only access and while some are being “Kind” they have swallowed the Stonewall falsehoods hook, line & sinker, aided by “training” from, I understand, Gendered Intelligence, provided free by the City. What a surprise!

Your telling women who don’t swim there to “butt out” and that “this is a total non issue” is wrong: women who for cultural or religious reasons may not swim in company with males (however they identify) are being directly discriminated against on the grounds of their additional [as well as their PC of “sex”] protected characteristics of “religion or belief” and their “ethnicity.” You are conniving at discrimination against a vulnerable group of women & supporting a group of males who, if they had an ounce of compassion, empathy or, yes, female socialisation, would take themselves off to the Mixed Pond to swim.
But no, they crave the validation from handmaidens and enjoy transgressing women’s boundaries. We don’t need to look at their genitals; humans - especially females, for whom it may be a lifesaving trait - can tell another’s sex from a myriad signs which cannot be changed by “feminisation surgery.” And males who say they are females do not need to make any medical or surgical changes to their body in order to gain the protected characteristic of gender reassignment conferred by the GRA & EA, so it’s really not difficult.
Change is gonna come and it can’t come too quickly.

The Ladies pond remains one of the most special spaces I’ve ever experienced. It truly is a safe space and pp is right that there is something so special about it that the occasional trans person can’t break it.

Ffs, your lovely special space has excluded women who used to regularly use it.

You are very much enjoying your privilege of being able to use a mixed sex space and not mind, while trying not to look at or think about the women that those male people and you have pushed out in order to pretend it's all lovely. Of course it's lovely and happy, the women who couldn't cope have gone. You got rid of them.

You are loving your exclusionary space. Good for you.

There are now women who used to use those ponds who cannot. While the bloody men who insisted so very selfishly on having everything, can take their happy pick of three wonderful special spaces, and witter on about how lovely and special and inclusive it is. The really special bit? Is how specially rotten a person you have to be to do this to others so you can have your personal needs met at their expense.

Just to clarify- I don’t think it’s a non issue. I believe that the current policy is wrong and that we should push back against it. However I do think that this needs to be done respectfully and by the membership. Mainly because if it’s a big protest from outside it is easy to dismiss all valid concerns as transphobia and shut down the conversations.

Change happens by talking to others, sharing and understanding each others view points and building consensus. Two groups yelling at each other from opposing corners will only entrench opinions.