The Ladies pond again

[IcakethereforeIam]

Trying to have a vote to make it women only again

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/22/transgender-women-ban-kenwood-ladies-pond-hampstead-heath/

https://archive.ph/xbIsK paywall dodge

I'm not holding my breath.

I’m basing my view on the legal advice given to the organisation in the article, and precedent.

Examples of single-sex spaces are just that - not always single-sex spaces which exclude trans women.

Single sex spaces with trans women in them are not mixed sex spaces in the EqA.

No come back to the point about how repulsive it is to instrumentalise other people’s religious beliefs in pursuit of your own very different goals, I see. Didn’t think there would be.

Just stop speaking for others! Nobody elected you to do that!

I speak for me and me alone, and so does every one of you.

It was gorgeous as always there today. Peaceful. Supportive. Cold!

but you're speaking for all women when you say men should be allowed in the women's pond.
Self excluded (for reasons of religion) women have spoken before.

Just pack it in. Why won't you accept that women are women and men should stay out of their spaces? What is the actual issue here for you? Are you one of those men? What is your skin in this actual game here.

SapphosRock · Yesterday 21:23

On one memorable occasion a peeping Tom was discovered hiding in the bushes. A group of the fiercer lesbians chased him out and beat him up.

Ha ha! I hope there was plenty of boot-bollock interface.

Luckily not everyone is as selfish as you @Adrian. Women didn't get the vote by sitting back and rolling over. Your patronising arguments won't persuade us that men attempting to disguise themselves as women should be in our spaces.

Exclusionary! Fantastically selfish! And religiously intolerant!

Yes, you really are speaking for you and you alone with no fucks to give about the women who have been excluded to give you and your men friends lovely choosy choices and lovely experiences.

And yes I bloody well will speak for those women as well as for myself, and I hope it makes you as uncomfortable as you sound in this post. After all you have no clue who of the women posting here are among the women you've pushed out. Autistic women. Disabled women. Traumatised women. Women survivors of CSA. Women survivors of DV. AND yes the women you deride for their beliefs and faiths and cultures in a very othering way. You are doing a really unkind, unpleasant thing while trying to fool yourself that it's ok.

Wow. That's a step up. I haven't swum in the Ladies Pond for decades but there was always a peeping Tom around - binoculars poked through the bushes. In those days there was a magnificent woman in charge with long wavy platinum hair. She would stride over and terrify them off. But they always crept back.

That's an enormous assumption about who you are speaking with here. Do you assume the default status to be white, atheist or Christian. Or can you conceive that 'other' women hold opinions on MN too?

its deeply depressing that you lot are like this

Why on earth does it depress you that some women won’t move over for men who want to pretend to be women? What a weird thing to get depressed about.

Stonewall law is not the law.

If you think transwomen in a women-only space is not mixed sex, are you saying that you believe humans can change their sex?

DadJoke · Today 00:20

Excluding trans women is neither proportionate nor legitimate, and therefore unlawful.

You can write that as often as you like, as long as you have the Mighty Fists of Ham at the ends of your arms.

And you'll still be wrong.

Every single time.

I find the glaring male privilege and lack of empathy with women the most depressing thing of all.

how repulsive it is to instrumentalise other people’s religious beliefs in pursuit of your own very different goals,

What different goals?

We've all got the same bloody goal!

Single sex spaces for women.

There are myriad of reasons why different women want that. Privacy, dignity, safety, religious concerns, or because they are traumatised in the presence of men. Loads of different reasons.

But all with the same bloody goal.

It's presumptuous of you to assume you know who is posting here. You have at least three women who use the pool and aren't happy about it on this thread alone.

You have no idea which women here are speaking from a religious context or who is speaking from a sexually traumatic past.

Bloody hell it really is privileged isn't it?

All these women are just invisible to you! Not actually posting on a bloody parenting forum. They're in some nebulous place that you can't see and so doesn't impact you.

Plus, I get the overwhelming impression that women just wanting it, is utterly out-of-the-ballpark unacceptable to you.

Men have got three bloody pools. Three. They've got them all.

That absolute doesn't register does it??

I suspect certain posters are worried that if it becomes a battleground again every MTF in London will rock up there whereas there's only the occasional one at the moment. And I am sympathetic to that concern,

Yes I suspected that too, and I was sympathetic until that awful post by Adrian.

Now I'm not. The selfishness is off the scale.

'repulsive'

Are you trans, AdrianPimento?

I think you are angry because you know some women are excluded, but you are included, so you feel warm and happy there. The knowledge of your own privilege is making you angry and you are projecting that at the 'repulsive' and excluded women.

By what means have you decided that they are 'other people's religious beliefs'. By what means did you determine they are not mine? Or are you saying you don't believe that Muslim or Orthodox Jewish women are on this thread?

Your inclusivity isn't very inclusive, and it comes with a big dollop of prejudice.

As Datun said, we've all got the same goal of single sex spaces but what if what you accused us of is true? You're still putting men first even though it's been pointed out to you that women are self excluding. So rather than think to yourself "hang on a minute, men now have 3 pools and some women have none", you decided to call us repulsive instead.

Just to clarify. What I meant was that even if your accusations were correct, it still doesn't change the fact that women are self excluding. Rather than reflect on that fact, you called us repulsive.

Just shows they don’t even see these men as women, otherwise they wouldn’t automatically prioritise them.

I want to set up my own company just so I can call it Boot-bollock Interface
I don't even care what the company does, I just want the name.

It is very interesting to me that AdrianPimento assumes that women with a religious faith are not present on this board.

I would have thought that having one space out of three reserved for female bodies would be clearly proportionate, legitimate and reasonable.
I'd quite like to see this go to court.

Other peoples religious beliefs? Are we talking about chopped liver here or something?

What's your definition of "other people "
What's your definition of "different goals"

I speak for all women, even those I dont much like, those who annoy the fuck out of me and those who havent yet felt the wrath of TRAs

You are not exempt mate, one day itll be your turn to try to figure out how you placated these men with everything that used to be women only and they still turned on you for some minor thing.
So yeah, I'm speaking for you too.

Cant edit, meant to add

Do we have a number yet, how many men of any gender make it a mixed sex space

MarkWithaC · Today 16:54

I want to set up my own company just so I can call it Boot-bollock Interface

Go for it!

What will you sell / service will you provide?