The Ladies pond again

[IcakethereforeIam]

Trying to have a vote to make it women only again

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/22/transgender-women-ban-kenwood-ladies-pond-hampstead-heath/

https://archive.ph/xbIsK paywall dodge

I'm not holding my breath.

If you can get a TRA to share and understand a woman's view point, and find a fuck to give about their needs and consensus, there's an MBE in it for you, because to think women haven't been trying to do this over this pond for years now?

Ffs.

Change happens by talking to others, sharing and understanding each others view points and building consensus

thats why i like mumsnet, you hear a lot of different views…without anyone yelling

Quite! I can’t believe we’re still getting ‘oh I’m sure if TW (men) understood how difficult it is they’d stop doing it’. They do understand how much it impacts women they just don’t care one iota - because they’re men

'Respectfully'?

Where was the respect for women's needs and rights when the trans ideologues and men's rights activists trampled over everybody to allow males access to all three ponds?

I suspect if there were no female swimmers in the ladies' pond the attraction to transwomen would mysteriously disappear.

I am reluctant to give peeping toms reading this thread any ideas but I suspect accessing a safe, sanctuary for women, probably the only place in London where women are free to sunbathe topless, is very little about swimming.

It's all down to magical ladyfeelz.

Cue the dreamy music....

It's all three ponds. All of them. The entire facility. Vulnerable women can't use a single one.

Whilst men can use any of them.

That is the official policy. A policy that was changed from fair to completely unfair. From inclusive to exclusive. Using a consultation which ignored its own results! Driven by transactivists Edward lord and Meg John Barker.

There were letters, meetings, the press were involved, there was a demonstration, police were there, it was talked about, reported and bloody well consulted on.

What the fuck do you think that all was when you say.

Change happens by talking to others, sharing and understanding each others view points and building consensus.

Of course they bloody understand women's point of view. They binned pages and pages of it, saw it reported in the press and know it was witnessed by the police.

They don't give a flying fuck. Ignoring women's consent IS the goal.

Otherwise, guess what?

They wouldn't do it.

Watch what happens now, when they attempt to do it all over again. Despite, according to you, only one man in years and years ever using it.

Could I if I glued on a fake moustache and stuck a couple of golf balls into my bikini bottoms? And went topless on top because I'm Steve?

At the time of the Man Friday protests, TRAs were all loudly insisting on 'no debate'.

Women were desperately trying to get TRAs to have a discussion and come to a consensus, but the result was TRAs trying to prevent women holding meetings and assaulting them.

How do you suppose we get to this lovely situation of "talking to others, sharing and understanding each others view points and building consensus" when one side is intent on 'no debate' and advocates violence against the women who disagree with them?

If you think we should be calmly discussing this, try telling that to the TRAs. We're not the ones who want 'no debate'.

I always do love the 'but I use it and it's no problem!' line.

The mixed sex lesbian clubs where there are no issues because all the lesbians who couldn't use it any more were pushed out!

The mixed sex women's pond where there is no issue because all the women who couldn't use it any more were pushed out!

This whole movement relies upon denying reality, and then insisting happy happy illusion is all there is.

As I remember, the men were quite sympathetic, but firm, and so were the police. Women did not get to play these games on men. But the same police were there to insist that women let men play those games on them.

The binary, sex based power imbalance was very hard to miss. So now men have three ponds, and women able to comply with putting men first and enjoying mixed sex provision have two. And some women can't use the facility at all.

Just reflect on that. Do you really believe that it is right that some women must have nothing, so that men can have their bestest life choice from everything?

I swim at the ponds regularly and have done so for over 20 years - with friends and my daughter and her friends. I would prefer not to have men in the changing area and showers or sunbathing on the lawns. Typically it's a place where women are happy to be naked whilst changing and towelling themselves dry in changing rooms on benches or other open areas and many women sunbathe topless. I had no hesitation about doing so myself with my teenage daughter and it always felt like a safe and special place to do so. That's not something I would do in a mixed changing room at the gym or public baths. It is unique in fact - as the ponds are sheltered by trees and a protected and welcoming space for women. I absolutely feel that changing the rules impacts on that special feeling of privacy and safety - for all women young or old or from more orthodox backgrounds.

It has definitely been the case that women from minority ethnic or orthodox faiths have been driven away from public swimming pools because of changes like these to and it's a detrimental step to take another space away from them and all of us. Cant anything be kept for women only?

Ain't that the truth!

Could our helpful new explainers of rightness please help me to understand why the modern type women can't use the mixed pond? So that everyone can have something, instead of some having a free choice of everything and some having no options at all?

Also, which pond do these three people use? (those are real people btw - one of those people is a TW, one is NB, one is a man)

Hmm, I wonder which one of those men belongs to Adrian's group of "Men don’t swim at the women’s pond. They aren’t allowed."

And which belong to his "Male-bodied people who identify as women can swim there".

Also, since Adrian wouldn't dream of 'peering at genitals', I wonder what it is about those people that makes him know they're male or female.

Magic perhaps.

Or maybe he can tell by a swift glance?

Yeah, we tried respectfully for about 15 years now. Surprise, that didnt work. Weve been silenced long enough. We have talked around this issue long enough. Men have ALL the spaces in the ponds, all of them. Why do men get all of them?
Why can women not have one? Just one?

We all remember #nodebate. Well that era is over now. The debate is happening and one day women will win this. Sorry in advance for the backlash that's coming.

Large left picture,'Danielle Muscato'
(see for example https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4734037-danielle-muscato-accused-of-sexual-assault#:~:text=From%20Twitter%2C%20prominent%20TRA%20Danielle,Totally%20shocked.)

Top right small picture, 'Gregory Murray'
(see for example https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3586399-Gregor-Murray-leaves-SNP)

Bottom right small picture, 'David Paisley'
too many discussions, X, youtube etc. to count. One from Glinner
https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/david-paisley-continues-to-harass-08e

All are men with histories of harassing, or worse, women. Men's pond are welcome to them if they'll have them.

100%

It's obv. not a happy place since Orthodox Jewish women and Muslim women feel they can no longer swim in the Women's pond since it is now mixed sex. Personally I'd go and swim in the Men's pool and ID as a man, but apparently they call the police is women do that.

I'm getting really fed up with people suggesting women 'build consensus'.

I don't even think ignorance is an excuse.

Just the knowledge that women have been disagreeing for years (and still are) yet you've got three pools for men and none for women.

There couldn't be a more comprehensive demonstration of a consensus vacuum.

'We are a happy place!' (Now we've excluded everyone who isn't part of our gang, particularly women with religions, disability, traumas etc boringly getting in the way of men's happy happy freedoms)

Whoopee for you.

How happy are the women you've excluded? Don't they deserve access to a happy place too? Without it being conditional on subordinating themselves and revolving around the desires of men?

Does anyone know if transmen use the men's pond, and if so, how it's going down with male swimmers? They would be entitled to do so, under the current policy, but I surmise that many would feel either unsafe or unwelcome or both, as they would often be clocked on sight as female.

I suspect certain posters are worried that if it becomes a battleground again every MTF in London will rock up there whereas there's only the occasional one at the moment. And I am sympathetic to that concern, but personally speaking I believe it's important to hold the line for our sex class. If this is a female space, that needs to mean something, or it undermines the idea of female spaces in all cases. I also feel for women who self exclude for this reason.

It is a big hurdle.

The women who are prepared to throw less fortunate women under the bus because they are (currently) ok. And it's not them that have lost anything.

Yet.