Forbes mag article on trans in sports

[adultingforever]

I cannot find another post on here about this one, so here goes! https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanmshaw/2024/02/04/transgender-swimmer-lia-thomas-body-is-not-the-problem. I have never seen this viewpoint before and I certainly do not agree with it. I remember when there was not a separation between mens and womens sports. How can anyone be thinking this way now??? We keep going backward!

It's an idiotic article. Full of factual errors and assumptions stated as fact.

It's the Michael Phelps argument - "different bodies have different advantages" nonsense to obscure the fact that male puberty gives some masive strength, speed and reach advantages. That doesn't even touch the disadvantages women's bodies have during menstruation, pregnancy and postpartum.

I would also like to call out this absolute bullshit:

Think about it for a minute. If women cut their hair the same way as men, wore “men’s” clothes, and didn’t shave their legs and underarms, wear makeup, or pluck their eyebrows, they wouldn’t look nearly as different from men as they do.

I don't do any of those things and I look like what I am, a woman.
Even if I dressed "as a man" in every regard and wore a fake beard, as soon as I walked it would be obvious I'm female because my skeleton structure means my gait is different from that of someone with a male skeleton.

The highlighted paragraph just shows how steeped in sex based stereotypes the author is, if she really thinks that women who don't conform to expected beauty standards look like men.

How did this get past an editor? It is denial of science. “Right now, we’re mostly working out of our deeply-held and rather largely unexamined assumptions about biology and gender.”

Agree this is nonsensical. We see short-haired women with no makeup and trousers every day of the week and we know they’re women.

Regardless of appearance, the difference in sporting performance is clear even for men and women of similar size. I train in jiu jitsu and a man my size can throw me across the room. The difference is enormous. Doesn’t matter that we’re both wearing the same uniform and both have short hair!

The article certainly attracted a lot of disbelief interest on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/feministgadfly/status/1754225718748426254

First time I’ve heard it proposed that men and women are physically the same and everyone’s just pretending they’re different through making different sports (and haircuts). Pretending men’s and women’s sports where both sexes compete (albeit separately) barely exist is quite the take! Passing over running and shot putting to mention bowling as an example where both sexes compete is fabulous.

Who is this mastermind of sporting knowledge?

Yep- she's got a point. If it weren't for the different swimsuits I'd definitely not be able to tell which of these were born male...

You got to wonder how prehistoric humans could tell men from women .

That article's gibberish. Just goes to show how unthinking adherence to this ideology makes people look like fools.

That made me laugh.

So we don't have evidence to say that men have a biological advantage over women but we have also designed sports that men are magically better at.

Also calling for more sports like mixed doubles in tennis. But how do we know how to mix the teams? I think the bodies of the people involved might have something to do with it.

What a load of absolute bollocks.

How do such stupid people manage to put their shoes on in the morning? Does this writer honestly think that a woman who isn't performing femininity and adherence to beauty standards becomes indistinguishable from a man? How insulting to all of us.

People with little knowledge of the subject will read it and believe it to be true. Aren't they subject to any standards of integrity, or honest journalism?

I do think the idea that "sport is used to prove men are better" has merit. I'd never thought before that sports deliberately highlight skills that men excel in - ie explosive power or physical strength as opposed to delicate skill or long term endurance.

What made me laugh was "there is no evidence". We have all of Lia Thomas' swimming data pre-transition. Was Lia no 1 then? What were Lia's times? What are the times now?

I also love that women doing the same thing - running, swimming, jumping- are clearly just not bothering to do as well as the men 🙄🙄🙄

BINGO!

Absolute bilge.

You do it the same way that US rowing (fully trans inclusive when it comes to women’s categories) did it for mixed crews - at least half of the crew have to be biological women.
So it’s fine for women to have to compete against men pretending to be women, but heaven forfend that men have to compete against them because it wouldn’t be fair. 🙄

It’s interesting that men aren’t taking over women’s gymnastics, I mean, you’d think all the spangly leotards and make up would be right up their street. I’m sure it’s nothing to do with things like flexibility which are different for men and women, it can only be that gymnastics is massively transphobic.

I was thinking about how so many of these articles on the internet feel devoid of context, so I looked up Forbes.

I looked on wikipedia and found a link to an article from a couple of years ago that described Forbes as an “under-edited group blog that’s a soft mark for grifters.”

https://www.niemanlab.org/2022/02/an-incomplete-history-of-forbes-com-as-a-platform-for-scams-grift-and-bad-journalism/

(Apparently Nieman Lab is a project at the school of journalism at Harvard University but that's as far down the source rabbithole I feel like going just now)

It's the Michael Phelps argument

Those that use this argument forget that Phelps trained intensively and was winning by fractions of a second over his nearest rivals, not full seconds and definitely not pool lengths.
If Phelps had stopped training as Thomas did he would have been beaten by his rivals.

If women cut their hair the same way as men, wore “men’s” clothes, and didn’t shave their legs and underarms, wear makeup, or pluck their eyebrows, they wouldn’t look nearly as different from men as they do.

Wow. Just wow.
Putting together all those things which don't define women.

Think about it for a minute. If women cut their hair the same way as men, wore “men’s” clothes, and didn’t shave their legs and underarms, wear makeup, or pluck their eyebrows, they wouldn’t look nearly as different from men as they do

what an absolute plonker !!!!

Forbes has form.

This wibble was published by them back in November.

I'd hazard a guess they're trying to make themselves 'relevant'. Or their intern is being given far too much leeway.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiewareham/2023/11/08/only-1-in-10-asexual-people-feel-comfortable-to-be-out-at-work/?sh=7b1090dd6118

Think about it for a minute. If women cut their hair the same way as men, wore “men’s” clothes, and didn’t shave their legs and underarms, wear makeup, or pluck their eyebrows, they wouldn’t look nearly as different from men as they do

There's been some stiff competition but that might be the most stupid thing I’ve read on this topic so far.
And once again it’s the male body as default trope- women are just men with longer hair and lipstick. How can they not see the sexism?