Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 7

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R
OU Departments & Networks:
HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
KS - Kevin Shakesheff. PVC for Research and Innovation
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21😇
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager

Witness for JP:

SE - Professor Sarah Earle, Head of the HWSRA

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

https://jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

Thread 5 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4919223-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-5

Thread 6 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4921308-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-6

So just un official bullying, sniping and harassment.

The 'TWAW is what everyone believes' view is incredibly white imperialist and classist. It's a bloody luxury belief.

I'm betting people in poverty the world over know the difference between the sexes. And don't have time / energy for gender identities.

Yes. Then DD said she didn't have control over other people's reactions

It's quite clear from polling in the U.K. and USA that this isn't a widely held belief, in the way genderists conceive of "TWAW".

So Debs likes a bit unofficial disapproval does she? She sounds like a fucking nightmare of a line manager. How would you know where you stand?

@mumsandaunties posted this Very interesting link on the last thread which features both the elusive Steve Tombs and DD 😇 in conversation, including about HERC. It’s worth a watch for all sorts of reasons.

I was struck by DD's (purely coincidental) physical resemblance to a certain former IT manager from Leeds.

No especially when it is pointed out that the majority have no surgery and transwoman means born male and not the misapprehension that they are born female as many seem to believe.

Thanks for the new thread @ickky

@Emotionalsupportviper From the end of the last thread: I'm also a practising Christian and used to pretty dire parish council meetings. Thankfully, as a Catholic, the transgender thing isn't as much of an issue (it is a big issue in university chaplaincies, where I met two transmen in one day this week, separately, but less so in parishes). But I am well used to priests or others who try to get their own way through various means. In the case of your priest and derailments, I would refuse to let it go - anytime he goes off topic, make sure that eventually you say 'yes, but back to the issue in hand ...'. If he then claims there's not enough time, make sure you request to have the item brought back at the next meeting, and the next ... there's only so much you can do, but every little helps. Maybe a boycott of certain groups/activities would help him to see who is affected. Our priests would certainly notice if none of the ladies turned up to make tea and coffee after Mass anymore (not that they would boycott, they'd just talk about not wanting to make a fuss)!

I would bet my bottom dollar that these academics have received Stonewall training, either firsthand or secondhand.

How courteous were they with Jo re the open letter?

Also is is Professor Phoenix, not Jo, to you madam

@Melissamelisante YY

DD: I was still distressed by the potential of the letter. I felt exasperated - not by JPs position but the way it was done. Without warning.

BC: Dept members don't have to run everything by you first

DD: No. But I had two members of dept who were trans

BC: That's the opposite of ac freedom, to have to run things by others just re t issues

DD: It was c duty of care. Being courteous

Couldn’t watch all of it, that video is about the importance of Critical Thinking!!!!!

Maybe Jo should have worn a sandwich board with TRIGGER WARNING on it whenever she was at work.

So yet again we have a senior leader who wanted this to go away as it made her life harder and the way to do that was to not do their duty to protect Jo

BC: If you really can't remember why you wrote to Chris why do you say in your WS that the email was sent to him in connection with his union role

DD: I wrote cos he was union rep. Was exasperated

BC: You say though in email you are reaching out for solidarity

I'm beginning to think 'problematic' = 'burn the witch' in academic terms.

I really hate the term 'problematic' now.

DD- I can't remember what prompted me to write to Chris Williams. Impulse maybe. I was exasperated. I was upset by this letter and wanted to understand more perhaps from his perspective. I thought he might have some solutions.
BC - reads out her email to him 'problematic and scary'

BC: reads from DD email: it's problematic, scary and interesting that people who signed ST letter have a nb / tw in their dept

Problematic = people are getting upset and rather than manage that like an adult I just give in to the children and ignore the bullying

I've been wondering about this too!

BC: you thought claimant might have been delib disrespecting DDownes and ABoukli in writing ST letter

DD: I was thinking JP being wilfully disrespectful in relation to pronouns.

DD thinks JP could have been deliberately/wilfully disrespectful to her 2 team members by signing the letter. IT ISN'T ABOUT YOU. FFS

DD- I was thinking JP might be being wilfully disrespectful with that letter

She dead named Dr Downes! 😂