Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 7

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R
OU Departments & Networks:
HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
KS - Kevin Shakesheff. PVC for Research and Innovation
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21😇
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager

Witness for JP:

SE - Professor Sarah Earle, Head of the HWSRA

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

https://jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

Thread 5 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4919223-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-5

Thread 6 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4921308-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-6

Sorry, scandic swearing commentary aimed at @SinnerBoy
It is Fy Faen, with Fy being a telling-off Word for when children do something wrong.

Apart from swearing,
this case has puzzled me greatly when it comes to all the colleagues and managers being so very worried about the T people. The very T people which actually aren’t T, they are nb, and their so called transition consists only of changing their names and fecking pronouns.
But then they pretend they care about the whole alphabet LGBTQ++## without caring one small jot about professor Phoenix who is actually a lesbian.

It makes no sense, of course. My heart goes out to professor Phoenix. I hope she reads your wonderful commentary and takes comfort in the support here.

@JoIsBraverThanIAm @Waitwhat23 I didn’t see the original post so you are probably correct about the misgendering.

Sounds like the OU’s EDI programmes were all about the T and absolutely nothing else. Or maybe they were taught that of all the protected characteristics, trans people are the most marginalised and oppressed in the UK, so need EXTRA protections and support.

Apologies. Yes, it's Gender Identity Team. But it's Student Support Team 'along with' GIT so sounds like two separate support teams. Hoping for some independence there. That may be overly optimistic ...

Finally finally caught up. I've been holding my breath a lot through my reading up to now. And lots of big sighs when flammable lingerie is witnessed.

I'm currently not very mobile (dont do the yellow walk in glentress if you have anything at all wrong with you, like oh I dunno needing bionic joints pretty soon, it's a fucker of a hill and yes I did it and now I can barely walk) so I should be around for tomorrow's summing up. Which I am very much looking forwards to.
See you all in the morning possibly on a new thread?

Wonderful!😁

Only 40 odd posts needed tonight to fill this one up

Okay okay here is a new thread, just to stop all the fretting. 😁

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4923923-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-8

I am gutted that tomorrow I've got to a. work, b. go to a GP appointment, c. pack, d. drive to Wiltshire, e. catch up with a dear friend who's not interested in this, f. go to a choir rehearsal. All these are absolutely fine ways to pass one's time, but not when BCKC is letting rip. Which I sincerely hope and truly think he is going to do.

He certainly has plenty of material to get his teeth into. I'll keep my fingers crossed for a day free from technical glitches so TT can capture it for you.

(And have a lovely weekend in Wiltshire.)

Thanks @ickky, no fretting here I know you have it all under control.

Ah, I've been on the new thread and see that this one is still live.

Thanks, Icky.

I'm going to contribute to filling this thread by just saying what an incredible group of people you are.

I don't talk about GI issues at work much, if at all..and when I do it is with my breath held, on my tiptoes and absolutely fact based, oh and only because someone is about to do something utterly bonkers that I can't not speak.

I try to talk to my kids about the need for them to consider facts, evidence and to think for themselves. They wobble...as they know that what I'm saying is true..but they are so conditioned to "be kind" and of course have friends identifying as trans so are defensive of anything they see as a "threat".

So when I'm with you lot, here..where I lurk in awe at the intellectual debates, the rigorous argument, the breadth of expertise, the Gilbert and Sullivan earworm...this is the only place I feel safe.

So thank you all for being here. See you on the next thread

You are not allowed to jump too soon. We need to stay here and discuss post-modernism 1988-1999: its influence in the conceptualisation of the binary.

Or cheese.

I think I will go with the cheese, it is more my milieu. 😀

I like cheese.

You can trust cheese.

A body knows where she is with cheese.

And a pickled onion.

Opting for non pickled onions is of course valid, if you identify as non-brinery.

(sorry)

Proper pickled onions though, not those sweet pickles.

Has anyone tried cheddar on a ginger biscuit?

There needs to be a campaign, possibly fronted by JKR, to bring the AMAZING Lidl cream cheese with horseradish that you can get in E Europe to the UK. It's in the Crefee range, but here you only get boring ones. So that's my CHEESE OPINION.

I may or may not have brought 4 tubs back from a trip to Bulgaria last month. I'm saying NUFFINK.

Oh! TOUCHÉ!

<chef's kiss>

😂

Ooh! A cheese smuggler!

Oh @SqueakyDinosaur that sounds amazing!

On my recent trip to Canada I discovered several places that did an amazing cheese and charcuterie sharing plate for 2 or a main meal for 1. With crudities, pickles, nuts, dried fruits and assorted crackers. Each place was slightly different but all wonderful for cheese lovers.

Agree re: onions.

But no - I haven't tried cheddar on a ginger biscuit. We have some extra mature cheddar and some high quality ginger biscuits (Ringtons) In at this very moment.

I'm going to try it now.

<drooling slightly in anticipation in a distinctly un-ladylike manner>

I had a baked cheese for a tapas last night. With honey and walnuts. I don't know what it was (small and round, like a mini roll sort of diameter). I will dream of that cheese for years to come