Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 7

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R
OU Departments & Networks:
HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
KS - Kevin Shakesheff. PVC for Research and Innovation
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21😇
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager

Witness for JP:

SE - Professor Sarah Earle, Head of the HWSRA

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

https://jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

Thread 5 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4919223-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-5

Thread 6 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4921308-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-6

Taking offence means nothing, it is literally your own problem.

"there could be disrespect taken" from Jo signing the letter - that phraseology goes to the heart of it, doesn't it? She means offence taken, and someone taking offence is not the same as the cause of that being disrespectful.

DD just called DDownes Julia. Is that deadnaming? While speaking about being respectful. Then calls her Leigh. Then says 'Julia at the time, now Leigh.'

It's difficult all this, isn't it, DD?

Doesn’t occur to her to consider whether these people were making unreasonable demands. They just had to be complied with

DD- action JP took here could have inhibited Leigh and Avi expressing themselves in the department

Maybe GC academics should wear badges on their clothes with 'problematic opinions' embroidered on them, so it's easier to know who to avoid, deplatform and marginalise.

I don't know why I'm suggesting this, I think this bunch at the OU would think it's a great idea.

BC: But the letter wasn't c shutting down views. It was c holding open a space to express views.

DD: I feel like the letter began by taking a strong potentially polarizing position. In this place it was not a good place to start from.

BC: Not part of your job as HoD to critique tone or strength with which people express their views.

DD: no

BC: you will inhibit ac freedom if you do that to people

DD: correct

BC- it is not your job to critique the tone of people in your department is it
DD agree

But DD seems unable to make the link that 300 people signing an open letter against Jo would be taken as 'disrespect'

Thinking of her two members of staff but not bothering about Jo

DD: I was thinking of consequences to my 2 member of staff who might now think warily of JP

Well forgive me if I'm wrong (I'm not) but it didn't stop LD from constant complaints via email, talking to other OU colleagues etc. Doesn't sound like they were inhibited.

Hm. Trans and Material Girls were published in 2021? And Jo Phoenix left the OU at the end of 2021. Did the event(s) they were talking about happen during 2021?

BC: reads DD email - I wonder if there is something cis members of staff can do...

I’m surprised she went with ‘tone’.

I was expecting ‘manifestation’ of views for bingo!

They could be sorted into appropriate Houses like in Harry Potter and have house colours/scarves. Though maybe some would find that literally hurtful through association.

BC quotes her email re the letter saying 'It feels so wrong and nothing to do with academic freedom'
DD- it was right afterwards and I was exasperated

Hm. Trans and Material Girls were published in 2021? And Jo Phoenix left the OU at the end of 2021. Did the event(s) they were talking about happen during 2021?

The launch of the GCRN was immediately following the Forstater appeal tribunal so June 2021. It seems Tomlinson did some speed reading as she claimed she "wasn't familiar" at the time it was launched.

I hope all these witnesses for the OU look at the news today. They see the Judges comments when sentencing the Scottish man dressed as a woman who has just got at least 20 years in jail for abducting and abusing a young girl. The Judge specifically said the girl got into his car because he was dressed as a woman.
Then look at what is happening to the women around the world caught up in war.
And I hope they feel absolutely ashamed of themselves and how their stupid collective ‘progressiveness’ has affected society and legislation.
edited to add: this needs to be studied and analysed and these lot were preventing it happening

@AmaryllisNightAndDay

BC reads: many in my team were upset

DD: main characters in conflict were Julia, Avi and Jo.

'Manifestation of views' does sound like the witch conjured them up over a cauldron. Tbh, that could be quite scary.

DD- I was worried about ripple effects in the dept, Leigh and Avi and Jo at the core, but there were other people

BC: Chris Williams refers to WApp group HBC set up. You joined that WA group didn't you

DD: Nope

So Tomlinson went from "not familiar with GC beliefs" to posting about hate groups based on her reading in the space of about a week