Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 7

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

You may attend in person or remote viewing has been quite limited but you can request log in details from

Email
[email protected]

Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

The clerk will ask you (in a private remote room) to put your camera on to verify, this involves looking at you, but no ID is needed. You may turn off your camera after this pointless and unnecessary process.

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R
OU Departments & Networks:
HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
KS - Kevin Shakesheff. PVC for Research and Innovation
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21😇
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager

Witness for JP:

SE - Professor Sarah Earle, Head of the HWSRA

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

https://jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

Thread 5 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4919223-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-5

Thread 6 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4921308-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-6

Who's CT?

I think CT is an error and it's DD?

C Tomlinson a senior student support officer. Who has a strong view of what is bigotry but doesn't think her behaviour falls under that. Even though it clearly did. Oh and who signed the letter but didn't think it would have any effect.

Witness - I'd never heard of anything guv
BC - this is an email where you wrote about it at that time

How many times in this tribunal have we seen variants on "I didn't know anything about this/I didn't say this/it was nothing to do with me" followed by BC saying "This is where you wrote these exact words proving that you did."

I almost feel sorry for them. It's like lambs to the slaughter.

Sorry, I've been putting CT instead of DD.

Breathtaking that she's come to the conclusion the TWAW view is the predominant one globally (just because those around her think this). Like hell it is, most people still stick to the old school scientific meaning.

What a crap academic if you can't look outside your narrow field. Is their next area of research going to be flat earthism?

BC: CCJS run one of main journals in criminology and OU gets free advertising in it cos of your relationship

DD: don't know nuffin c free advertising

Was this DD claiming not to know about Gender Critical?

The OU really need to get some help for their people - they all suffer from amnesia. Even things like being involved in reviews, conferences etc slip their mind

The past is another country. We did things differently there, in a way that I don't regret but emphatically don't recall now.

Yes.

Filed under Transnesia/amnesia.

Exactly! True believers have time and time again showed that they do not understand the GC perspective. Most, for example, never even read JK Rowling's words in full; they simply relied on other people's interpretations and pre-judgments before resorting to condemnation. It never fails to amaze me how little people actually understand - including academics and politicians.

Cor!

BC - you can't remember if you were involved in the review but you are very clear on the reasons for the review.

DD - I read the documents after

Amazing how her memory comes and goes

And she said

I spoke to people (not Richard) about...

Amazing - she can sometimes remember the people she didn't talk to about something at a specific time

I occasionally peruse funded medical/biological PhDs. I'm not going to link, because they'd probably then get cancelled for transphobia, but quite a few them look at sex differences, biological sex differences. All these medical & biological scientists seem not to have signed up to the TWAW school of thought.

What a narrow minded field theirs must be if they can't even consider the scientific view as valid enough to be worthy of consideration.

And also, not to harp on this, but you're not being 'kind' to trans people if you deny the very research that will help ensure adequate healthcare. Their sex is a reality, regardless of what DD wants to be true, and the joy achieved from shutting down others, and it will cause harm to trans people to deny this scientific reality,.

CT said when she was being a witness to not know anything about gender critical views but trusted the views of academics who knew more that her. But then she said she did extensive research into it to form her view. So they can't even keep their stories straight.

Now we have DD deferring to the expertise of others in this area. Did no one do any actual due diligence?

They need an urgent investigation. Perhaps there's something in the water?

DD: what LW said yesterday was helpful. The disagreement with RG was a catylyst.

BC: This is a rewriting of history, Dr D. Look at the notes

Did no one do any actual due diligence

I am beginning to suspect that these diligent academics, support staff, VC, grievance reviewers etc. don't understand the phrase or what it involves…and that this may be a very convenient lacuna in their comprehension skills that is a fine companion to the universally selective memories they exhibit.

Do you think she has it memorised or are we going to see some more selective forgetfulness today?

Thanks for clarification ☺️

Break until 11.50 am

Log straight back in.