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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Emailed HR

81 replies

Mumteedum · 11/09/2023 10:32

I was asked to update personal details this morning.

I had two options regarding sex and gender. What is your gender identity? Options I think were male/female/prefer not to say. And does your gender identity match the sex assigned at birth? Yes/no/prefer not to say.

I sent a very polite email asking them to consider an alternative as this does not represent me accurately. It's a bit nerve wracking. So far our university has been fairly balanced but watch this space 🙈

OP posts:
Datun · 11/09/2023 13:13

Mumteedum · 11/09/2023 12:49

The issue was I had no option to leave it blank. I had to answer affirmatively about gender identity and I don't think it applies to me.

Now most staff will roll their eyes and just click male or female but it's not right to say something about yourself on your record that is untrue.

Yes. It's making you comply with an ideology that (presumably) you disagree with.

As someone says, it's like asking which religion do you belong to, or do you prefer not to say which religion.

Not, I don't actually belong to one.

Or if we are being strictly fair, I don't agree with religion at all.

If they want to represent people in the equality act, then they need to adhere to that and use the term gender reassignment. But they would have to explain why they didn't include all the other characteristics, too.

If it's not about the equality act, and only about your gender identity, then they need to explain why they are only representing one ideology. And expecting people to accept it.

AnSolas · 11/09/2023 13:29

Mumteedum · 11/09/2023 12:49

The issue was I had no option to leave it blank. I had to answer affirmatively about gender identity and I don't think it applies to me.

Now most staff will roll their eyes and just click male or female but it's not right to say something about yourself on your record that is untrue.

Go with their obligation under data processing of your data

Its excessive collection
If it not excessive is it essential to supply
If it is essential why is is collected and stored long term
if it is collected it has to be correct

And if supplying is choice they provide an option to opt out
Eg data not provided

Whatsnewpussyhat · 11/09/2023 13:52

I asked if they could add a question that allows us to state our sex (or gender if they are using the polite euphemism for sex) as well as the gender identity
question

No they mustn't use gender. Just sex. It is no longer a cutesy euphemism.
Using gender continues to muddy the waters.

Sex? Male/female

Do you have a gender identity? Yes/no/prefer not to say.

If yes chose from these 78 options or write your chosen gender identity in the box below....

BabyStopCryin · 11/09/2023 14:10

Why do they need to know how some navel gazer chooses to think about themselves (at any given time)?

The next question is ‘what are you going to do to address my inner woman/man/cat/goldfish/wood sprite/pixie/lamppost…?’

OhHolyJesus · 11/09/2023 14:34

Well done OP!

Do let us know how you get on.

tastytattie · 11/09/2023 14:44

MontyCCU · 11/09/2023 11:17

I thought gender reassignment was the protected characteristic along with sex

Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic but not gender identity.

mopoji · 11/09/2023 14:48

GlasgowGal82 · 11/09/2023 10:51

Can't you have a biological sex and a gender identity even if you don't agree that these can be different?

No, you can't. There is no such thing as gender identity.

Of course some people think they have a gender identity, just as some think they have a guardian angel. But they really don't. Because there is no such thing.

Of course we should be tolerant of those who think they have a guardian angel or whatever. But we are still allowed to point out their mistake, even so, and a fortiori on official forms..

Original poster
Mumteedum · 11/09/2023 15:50

@Whatsnewpussyhat well yes I would agree, they should use sex but many places even pre gender identity used gender as a stand in for sex for some misplaced sense of politeness.

I'm at pains to not come across as having a problem with other people, just making a request to clearly state my own record.

To my mind, if they have a what's your gender ...male female. What is your gender identity... male/female/non binary/other/not applicable and does your sex match your gender at birth...blah blah ... should cover all bases well enough. I want the not applicable as an option and someway of recording femaleness based in fact not self identity.

OP posts:
Original poster
Mumteedum · 11/09/2023 15:56

Ohhh ... just had an update to say they've changed it to what is your sex...and said it was mistake and thanks for flagging it up!

Amazing. Phew...we are still a moderate institution after all! I'm v happy with this 😊

OP posts:
AnSolas · 11/09/2023 16:03

Mumteedum · 11/09/2023 15:56

Ohhh ... just had an update to say they've changed it to what is your sex...and said it was mistake and thanks for flagging it up!

Amazing. Phew...we are still a moderate institution after all! I'm v happy with this 😊

Good for you👍👍

Small changes by being brave enough to ask the question let to good outcome

tastytattie · 11/09/2023 16:04

Great they've realised. Result!

I originally came in to say that if they record gender identity without also recording biological sex the results are kind of meaningless as for statistical purposes you'd surely want to know how "gender identity" correlated with original biological sex?

Kilopascal · 11/09/2023 16:05

I think I've mentioned before that my elderly father, asked 'How do you identify?' by NHS staff, thought he was being asked for proof of identity.

It's alien language to so many people.

IcakethereforeIam · 11/09/2023 16:13

That must be a relief for you, it's feels kind of ridiculous to say this but you've been brave. Well done. It was no small thing.

Hubblebubble · 11/09/2023 16:15

Might be a bit off tangent, but sex isn't assigned at birth. For most of us, it's observed in utero with scans and/or NIPT testing.

Hubblebubble · 11/09/2023 16:16

So even the language is daft. I knew my son was of the male sex in my second trimester

GCAcademic · 11/09/2023 16:54

Kilopascal · 11/09/2023 16:05

I think I've mentioned before that my elderly father, asked 'How do you identify?' by NHS staff, thought he was being asked for proof of identity.

It's alien language to so many people.

I was an inpatient on a gynae ward recently and the elderly lady in the bed next to me was asked that question. She and her husband looked totally confused while their middle-aged daughter snorted derisively. The anaesthetist did roll her eyes and say sardonically "oh yes, I've done aaaalll the training". I wasn't asked how I identified, perhaps because I wasn't having surgery, or perhaps because other members of staff weren't willing to ask the question?

I'm surprised that they haven't renamed the Women's Centre at that hospital to the "Assigned Female at Birth Centre". Yet.

AnSolas · 11/09/2023 17:14

GCAcademic · 11/09/2023 16:54

I was an inpatient on a gynae ward recently and the elderly lady in the bed next to me was asked that question. She and her husband looked totally confused while their middle-aged daughter snorted derisively. The anaesthetist did roll her eyes and say sardonically "oh yes, I've done aaaalll the training". I wasn't asked how I identified, perhaps because I wasn't having surgery, or perhaps because other members of staff weren't willing to ask the question?

I'm surprised that they haven't renamed the Women's Centre at that hospital to the "Assigned Female at Birth Centre". Yet.

Show quote history

The Barren2, Bleeder, Breeder Centre

🙈

Yep I posted it
🤪

Redshoeblueshoe · 11/09/2023 17:37

Great update OP

Forester1 · 11/09/2023 19:16

Good news. I’ve raised a similar point around a staff survey and I think the more people start to query this stuff the better.

Forester1 · 11/09/2023 19:26

On a related point has anyone seen a definition of a male or female gender identity?

LizaBizza · 11/09/2023 19:52

" And does your gender identity match the sex assigned at birth? Yes/no/prefer not to say."

If you aren't trans, then just select Yes.

PosterBoy · 11/09/2023 20:10

LizaBizza · 11/09/2023 19:52

" And does your gender identity match the sex assigned at birth? Yes/no/prefer not to say."

If you aren't trans, then just select Yes.

Did you read any of the thread or just go straight to 'post'?

maltravers · 11/09/2023 21:10

On a more positive note, I had to fill in an official medical questionnaire today which asked for my sex and said gender identity was not relevant to the question. I’m not saying which one as I don’t want the flying monkeys of the Traliban to descend on them, but it was good to see some common sense.

SlippinJanie · 11/09/2023 21:22

Well done OP 👏

maltravers · 11/09/2023 21:24

On a more positive note, I had to fill in an official medical questionnaire today which asked for my sex and said gender identity was not relevant to the question as it was a medical one. I’m not saying which organisation/questionnaire as I don’t want the flying monkeys of the Traliban to descend on them, but it was good to see some common sense.