Hannah Barnes is on Triggernometry later, 7pm Sunday 20 August

[nauticant]

Gender Clinic SHUT DOWN: Journalist Breaks Down Investigation

 

Good to know. I'll definitely be making time to listen to that, most likely on catch-up.Thank you for posting!

Thank you. I heard her being interviewed on Newsnight recently and she was so interesting.

Fabulous thank you!

I read her book when in holiday. Jaw dropping in places. Amongst other things I cannot believe they didn't collect any data

Just bumping this as a 10 minute warning. Starting at 7pm tonight.

Likewise. I finished it this morning and it blows my mind that they'd be treating kids with an experimental approach based on evidence from an entirely different type of cohort and not monitor outcomes. WTF were they thinking?

Just finished listening to this. Such an important topic and really mind blowingly disturbing. Thank you Triggernometry for such an illuminating and important interview.

Once you believe that gender nonconforming kids are at risk across the board of suicide, you'll do anything to stop kids committing suicide.

This is the # BeKind mantra at the heart of the whole phenomenon. I believe this has literally created a brain fog in medical professionals, journalists, politicians, academics.

Once you've been suckered by this, then comes the sucker punch, the benefits to individuals wired into the cult.

The doctors making money, the politicians getting good vibes, the artists who only see the Pride flag, the journalists who demonstrate how easy it is to follow a herd and not break from it skeptically.

Don't look at the live chat that went on as the broadcast took place! There's a fair amount of nutters in there who take Hannah Barnes' moderation and need to understand what dynamics went on as a reason to declare her as being complicit and in some way responsible. It's bonkers.

Thank you I'll give it a watch

She has remained very neutral which is to her credit. She needs to maintain journalistic integrity but it is so heartbreaking. I have teens amd their friends wrapped up in this chaos

I very much agree with that fabricstash. Among those campaigning against this madness, there needs to be a range of approaches. It's good to have KJKs but it's also good to have people like Hannah Barnes providing a much more measured introduction to those who encounter the ideology and its fall-out and want to learn more.

You're only going to reach the ears of professionals and those who do have the expertise to have real change if you use the language they're used to and respect.

I really enjoyed that interview. The book is so good for anyone who hasn't read it. I think Hannah adds a lot to the debate because she tries so hard to be fair and impartial. It's what the BBC should be doing, and with the support of her Editor it's what Hannah did, just a shame so many of her colleagues didn't have the same bravery or integrity. No-one could accuse Hannah of being a 'culture warrior' everything she says is evidence based.

Whilst I won't go so far as commenters on the video who accuse her of being a bag carrier for this ideology, she did seem to spend an extraordinary amount of time imagining excuses and attributing noble motivations to everyone involved.

At some point, it needs to be said these 'otherwise fine people' were culpable for some grotesque actions. Imagined positive motivations mean naught.

(that said, I'm grateful for her work. I'm sure it won't come at zero cost to herself)

I watched it and found it interesting (and very upsetting/shocking) but I find her commitment to ‘BBC impartiality’ on this issue confusing - she reminds me of Jesse Singal in that both journalists have reported on the horrifically low quality evidence base for child transition but still both seem to think that some children need to have their puberty blocked/be given cross sex hormones/have surgery.

I can’t understand how they can both do such a deep dive into the subject and report on the shoddiness of using ideologically driven reasoning and outdated sexist stereotypes as diagnostic criteria for dysphoria and yet still think that some children should go through this damaging medical process.

I don’t believe it would be “illiberal” (Singal describes himself as politically and socially Liberal) or “campaigning journalism” (Barnes is strongly committed to BBC impartiality criteria) to call this a medical scandal and to state that irreparably harmful things are being done to children and there are no medical justifications for it.

I don’t want to be rude to either journalist because I very much value the time, commitment and effort they’ve put into following and reporting on this topic but it seems to me that they are both trying to be open minded on this issue well past the point of good sense.

I think it's clear that the reason for her very carefully chosen words is that she works for the BBC, which despite her declaration to be true to BBC impartiality, is not impartial when it comes to transgenderism. If she gave what is clearly her personal honest opinion she would be in hot water with her bosses and could be driven out of her job.

Maybe she daydreams on the freedom for Kath Stock and Helen Joyce to think clearly and aloud. With no employer bias to constrain.

I agree with both @ANameChangePresents and @UtopiaPlanitia. While I feel grateful to Hannah for her work which in the climate is courageous I found her attempt at matter of factness a frustrating listen. The reason is that harming children having realised that harms are being caused should be/is indefensible in any moral sense. I was glad that Konstantin really called this. Her inability to pass any real comment on what she discovered to me supports those who refuse to look this thing properly in the eye. She came close and then veered off many times. I find that a difficult thing to comprehend. It is a little like watching abuse and then shrugging. A cognitive dissonance somehow. Still, every piece of work throwing light on this is important.

Good points about employer constraint though

There are some slogans that just energise a whole cohort.
Take Back Control for Brexit.
Do you want a dead daughter or a living son? for trans.
I really believe that these massages cut right thru.

After a couple of decades of kids self harming and starving themselves, this new germ of an idea arises, and goes viral, thru social media to self generate victims, but critically for the elites to trash all previous caution and skepticism, and to not only accept at face value, but to insist all around must do.

So while the kids are self IDing and supporting each other, the naive parents critically within the elites policy makers, academics and arts communities, the journalists, are ramping up their total capitulation to the suicide ideation myth.

This is the core of a generation of those in positions of power putting aside all natural doubts and questioning, thence doubling down on nay sayers, and a media landscape and profit driven medical system that again should say, stop, let's wait, let's investigate, but instead join those lemmings rushing to the cliff edge...

For me, this is the only cogent way to see this phenomenon for what it is.

The road to Hell paved with good intentions, noone asking for an alternative map.

I suspect this is how Hannah sees this too.

*these messages cut thru

Note to MN, can we please have an edit function?

Planning to watch later today, but read the book when it came out and thought it was an excellent read. Of all the books on this subject, this is the one I would give to somebody to help them understand the issue with treating children. It would be difficult to criticise it for being transphobic. I thought the empathy that the therapists have for those with gender dsyphoria came across strongly. For that reason amongst others, I think Hannah Barnes calm and measured approach is an important voice.

Hannah aside because I believe her work is important. A question might be: is it appropriate to describe profound abuse in a calm and measured voice? Is it the equivalent to a vocal shrug of the shoulders and a looking the other way? It is this I find hard to comprenhend when I see people do it.